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HDG · 02-18-2005, 02:00 PM

My primary epee is grounding out. I started by checking for all of the usual suspects: broken wire, smashed wire, body cord. All clear. I took the weapon apart and connected the wires directly to the body cord and retested. Everything tested fine. I put it back together, taking even greater care than normal with the wires; grounded out again. Took it apart, connected the wires to the socket w/o putting anything else back on, tested, grounded out. Can it be the socket? Can they fail? Help.

keith · 02-18-2005, 02:03 PM

you are attaching the wires to the right connectors on the socket?

(you wouldn't be the first to do it

)

HDG · 02-18-2005, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keith

you are attaching the wires to the right connectors on the socket?

(you wouldn't be the first to do it

)

It's not a newly wired (or re-wired) weapon; the problem developed suddenly on a weapon I had been using without problem.

keith · 02-18-2005, 02:33 PM

in that case I would guess it is a short where the wire comes out of the glue in the blade - no grounding when you hold everything apart, grounding when all squished together. I can't imagine anything that could go wrong with an epee socket, there is nothing there to actually cause the short (other than the blade wire extending out of the connectors, which is user error not a socket problem).

Fechter1 · 02-18-2005, 04:45 PM

Just thought I'd ad my $.02.
As for the blade grounding out, did you actually verify that there is a short between the A and C (or B and C) contacts? (Just making sure we're actually focusing on the correct issue)
If so, then the problem could be a number of things. Could be in the tips (in which case you're screwed), could be on the blade (screwed), at the guard (usually screwed) or inside the guard (best bet for a fix).
Might even be in the body cord...

As for the socket, that's easy to test... just plug the body cord into the unconnected socket, and see if the short's there.

Next, what Keith mentioned, check the wires at the socket. There should not be any bare metal poking out anywhere. (Insulators have to come all the way to the connector)

If at this time you still haven't found the problem, check where the wires come out of the blade inside the guard. (Note: common mistake here: if the wires come out between the guard and the socket metal, then you've got a problem there...)

At this point, I can't think of any more causes that would be fixable... might be time to rewire...

Hope this helped.

HDG · 02-18-2005, 05:10 PM

I'm not sure that any of these apply given that when I connect the wires directly to the bodycord (rather than through the socket) and test the weapon, the problem goes away.

As I stated in my initial post, I've inspected the wires themselves and their insulation, and there doesn't appear to be any problem. That's why I'm so confused.

Am I just not getting it?

keith · 02-18-2005, 05:25 PM

little snags and scratches in the wire that result in a short are really hard to see. If you have checked everything (and it sounds like you have) and haven't done anything really stupid (you sound like you know what to look for) then you get to rewire. Some faults just never track down.

I reckon its a little rubbed of insulation at the base of the weapon between the end of the glue and the start of the insulation cover (the 'spaghetti' wire cover) leading to the socket; try painting some nail varnish over the wires and the base of the blade (under the wires) then try and slide the insulation as far over as you can before assembling everything. Even if this is the problem the 'fix'is only likely to last a week or two of heavy use.

telkanuru · 02-18-2005, 05:27 PM

One of my blades has the same problem. If the screws holding the socket to the metal ever come loose, it starts grounding out. Tightening the socket screws fix this. G'luck.

HDG · 02-18-2005, 05:37 PM

Thanks for everybody's help; just gonna rewire and chalk it up to gremlins.

acaba · 02-18-2005, 05:38 PM

Question: When you have taken it all apart and connect the blade wires directly to the body cord, are you also touching the grounding pin of the body cord to the blade? If the third line of the body cord isn't electrically connected to the blade there is no way to find the grounding problem. The electricity needs to travel up the (good) wire, through the blade, and back down the 3rd wire of the body cord before you can get the ground light to light.

If the 3rd wire is just hanging in space: Presto! No more grounding!

Aaron

DHCJr · 02-18-2005, 06:29 PM

I would like to concur with acaba & Fechter1. It is easy to check just the connector. Just plug it in and it can develop grounding problems. What acaba said is very true. How did you test just the blade. I am sure you connected the wire to the A & B, but did you touch the C part of the body cord to the blade. This way a very astute suggestion.

BenTheEMOP · 02-18-2005, 06:35 PM

I've had problems with epees grounding out if the socket bracket is resting on the blade at any point as well. So recentering the socket so that it is not resting on the blade or wires might help.

ThatReallyHurt · 02-18-2005, 06:44 PM

I couldn't think of a suitable way to introduce this as a thread, but I think it works in here quite nicely, what with the grounding problems and all (and no, I'm not trying to threadjack)...

Would a multimeter with continuity test be a good gift for someone who's starting a trek down the "armourer" path?

DHCJr · 02-18-2005, 07:20 PM

Yes, but make sure it is an appropriate meter. First can it measure Ohms, not K Ohms or even worse M Ohms. It should have a 1x selection. The lame has the highest Ohms test at 5 Ohms. I do not consider the machines, because you are introducing Ohms and a meter would not be appropriate for that.

Digital or Analog? Since a new Armorer will not be dealing with machines, the only thing they will be working on will have mechanical electrical connections. With that there is only one choice Analog.

HDG · 02-18-2005, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

I would like to concur with acaba & Fechter1. It is easy to check just the connector. Just plug it in and it can develop grounding problems. What acaba said is very true. How did you test just the blade. I am sure you connected the wire to the A & B, but did you touch the C part of the body cord to the blade. This way a very astute suggestion.

Well, I just removed the wire. I did eventually find a break (hidden under the spaghetti) causing an intermittent problem, or more exactly, I could jiggle it and make it work intermittently.

In the future, though, I will definitely be sure to factor in the C wire (definitely an astute suggestion). Once you all spelled out the need to make contact with the C to have an valid test, it made perfect sense.

ThatReallyHurt · 02-18-2005, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

Yes, but make sure it is an appropriate meter. First can it measure Ohms, not K Ohms or even worse M Ohms. It should have a 1x selection. The lame has the highest Ohms test at 5 Ohms. I do not consider the machines, because you are introducing Ohms and a meter would not be appropriate for that.

Digital or Analog? Since a new Armorer will not be dealing with machines, the only thing they will be working on will have mechanical electrical connections. With that there is only one choice Analog.

Yeah, analog is definitely what I would think of. I've got an ancient Fluke kicking around, it's been fantastic.

Five ohms on the lame? Wow, I had no idea it was that low. Hmm... can't pick up a meter that's really accurate on the low ranges for cheap...

DHCJr · 02-19-2005, 03:37 AM

Definitely not a Digital. It is not the accuracy of a digital that is the problem, it is the rate of samples. You can get an analog that is good enough for $25 - $35. I did get some small ones for $10. I do admit they were on sale and they don't take abuse well. Mostly I use them as demonstration. Fluke is good for what it was designed for.