Hits to Foot

[Alain]

One for the épéeists... I like hitting people on the foot, and do it quite often, I was just wondering how many of you go for it, and how? What moves/preparations do you feel work particularly well?

Thanks

[Gav]

I like to throw in the odd one or two in a fight. Because I am a big chap I don't tend to get away with it with little guys...

Being a lefty I find that High-low's are quite good. Particularly if you have just been bashing them with 1-2's or various other high compound attacks. Another good one, for people who make huge prep's, is to go straight for the foot as soon as it appears to be about to land [do not pass Go!] and you can quite often hit them with the timing.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I find that a flick to the foot is more effective, because it brings your point back up to their wrist if you miss the foot. Despite that, I only go for footshots every once in a while, because its exposes your wrist quite a bit. Occasionally though, you see an opprotunity.

[sreckiki]

Here is my recipie for a good hit on the foot:
- make the guy does a retreat... but not too fast. At the end of his retreat, the closest target is his foot and there's one point where it's not moving...
- go slowly to the hand but not always inside the guy's hand because after three times, it is very likely that you get a painful parry in second!
- then, "dive" as fast as you can to the foot. I never do flick because I find it's not accurate enough, but I know guys who do that.
- even if you touch, go directly to the body after that... It's a good habit to avoid getting hit when you miss.

That's the way I do it... and it works. Two weeks ago, I fenced a guy from my club and I hit him 10 times to the foot in a 15 touch bout. I found that a little bit weird but it was a good "hit on the foot" training session! And no, the guy was not a beginner. He's even a A. But he has extremly big feet!

[Zilverzmurfen]

I'm lousy at foot hits. Really, close to useless.

During my fencing 'career' (ha ha ha) I don't think I've managed more than ~30 (?) foothits. Then again it's a difficult target (for me) and I really don't go for it very often. However, lately, I am forcing myself more to try to score foothits during practise.

Much like my tryout of the french grip it's not easy. But hey, it's a sport for life right? I have many years left to perfect them!

[troygaljair]

I prefer to use the foot touch as a backup move, though that usually depends on who I'm fencing. If its a fast counterattacker type, I usually don't try it unless I can catch him/her off balance. If I'm fencing an attacker (You know, the ones who start their second attack before the prep for the first one is done. The ones who run into your point) I usually use it alot (not 10 of 15, though. Thats pretty good)
At a recent tournament (last sunday) I used it alot, mostly because nothing else I was doing was working. (I placed 13 of 17. Embarrassing, but I learned alot) Anyhow (*slaps myself to get attention*) in my best bout of many bad bouts I hit the opponent in the foot for the first touch. And the second touch. Then I feinted high, feinted low, and when he automatically went to parry my foot touch, I nailed him in his helmet. (Ever knock someone over on his back when fencing? Try it. It's rather entertaining, at least when you place 13th) So I scored the first three touches...and lost 15-6. Oh, well. So much for the starting edge.

Well, that was enough rambling. Sorry. TJE.

Oh, and I didn't knock him over, either.

[glowstix]

touche-a-pied!!!

lately i've been trying more and more foot touches and they work like 50% of the time but for some reason in tournaments i just don't have the confidence in my foot touch timing. what works is a feint into 4 to draw a parry. at the first movement i dive straight down!! sometimes it works, sometimes i hit the shin or ankle and sometimes the floor..

[veeco]

There was this one tournament on the west coast I fenced in a couple of years ago, where 3 friends of mine and myself had a little contest: we would count how many foot touches we would score in the whole tournament. The winner would get 20 dollars for each foot touch he scored more than the others.

I won the tournament, I won the contest, and some people (I am not going to name names here...) still owe me a pretty big chunk of money!

[remise]

Well, unlike Veeco, I stink at foot touches. I am not sure if you are supposed to place the point flat - like a quick slap - to the foot, or point dead down - like a quick jab. My sheer lack of understanding it is why I don't do it.

[telkanuru]

The foot is an excellent target as a surprise move. I normally go foot after an extended or a repeated blade conversation, as it is completely unexpected. I can get ~1-2 per 5 touche bout against most opponents. I also sometimes use beat-5 down to foot, or just play with tempo and distaince and then hit them, depending on how I'm doing on the day and the skill of both my opponent and the director (if the strip isn't grounded).

My success rate went up quite a bit after my coach showed me that, since most people hold their guard directly above their foot, I really don't need to look down and telegraph where I'm going to go, which leads to a whole new set of mind games (look at foot, hit chest, etc.).

[Alain]

Some good answers, thanks

I like hitting foot. It can be a good opportunity to score a "free hit" - when your opponent's being lazy with distance: direct lunge, foot hit, thank you very much - but also I find it an easy target when fencing (relatively) less-experienced opponents.

An upwards beat (to the underside of your opponent's blade) followed by a direct lunge can be effective. Once this is done, you can use it as a beat-feint to cause panic and then hit somewhere else.

And with someone who has really bad footwork, a direct lunge to their leg can prove very effective (it will also instill fear in them for the rest of the match)

When in defense, especially in close quarters, hitting to foot can be a good option. If your opponent has done a really deep attack, take a quick parry of octave/seconde and riposte to foot; a target that can be quicker and easier hit than going for body.

As telkanuru says, you should never really aim for the foot; it's just there when you hit it. When your opponent comes en guarde, the hand should be directly above their thigh. Drop your point a little lower and it should be aiming at their thigh, lower still and their foot will be locked on...

[the doc]

i am of the opinion that there is no-one i can't foot hit. for some reason i seem to be quite good at it. it helps that i tend to sit in quite a low en garde and am left handed, so the foot is right there in front of me. i don't tend to do much bladework to set it up, never anything more than a slight feint to hand, but usually just go straight in with some good timing. timing is the key, you have to pick a moment when the have switched off slightly.

i find that it is a good move against the more inexperienced fencer if you use it early in a fight, as after you can just throw a few feints to foot in and their footwork goes to pot.

[nahouw]

An upwards beat (to the underside of your opponent's blade) followed by a direct lunge can be effective. Once this is done, you can use it as a beat-feint to cause panic and then hit somewhere else.

For a fencer who has obviously fenced foil before fencing epee and has a parry response, my favorite is to feint body, deceive the parry and then go to toe. I think that this is safer than the underside beat, because the momentum change gives you more time -- with the underside beat, the opponent still has time to hit.

[nahouw]

[QUOTE=the doc]i am of the opinion that there is no-one i can't foot hit. for some reason i seem to be quite good at it. it helps that i tend to sit in quite a low en garde and am left handed, so the foot is right there in front of me. i don't tend to do much bladework to set it up, never anything more than a slight feint to hand, but usually just go straight in with some good timing. timing is the key, you have to pick a moment when the have switched off slightly.
QUOTE]

As a left-hander, I agree that it is easier for the left/right pairing to get toe touches. Acually, I don't think I have ever tried a toe touch against another left-hander.

Part of the reason is that in this pairing is that the bell guard obstructs the vision a bit if your opponent isn't holding their weapon in correct form. And the more you practice toe touches, the better and more confident you get with them. I never practice toe touches during my lessons, only through bouting, and have suprisingly gotten quite good at them. Setting it up by going for several hand touches on either side of the hand will get your opponent thinking about protecting hand and forgetting bout footwork, so then he is imobile when you go for the toe touch.

[veeco]

Well, unlike Veeco, I stink at foot touches. I am not sure if you are supposed to place the point flat - like a quick slap - to the foot, or point dead down - like a quick jab. My sheer lack of understanding it is why I don't do it.

You're supposed to hit with the point, as with all epee hits :-).

As Alain, Nahouw and the others have said, you really shouldn't go for a foot touch without preparation. But once you get a good preparation going, you can pretty much hit there with a ridiculous amount of consistency. And the best part of it is, you don't need to be faster or taller than the other guy, it just works and keeps on working, and drives them crazy!

I have heard of world cup and world championship bouts where one fencer scored something like 10 of 15 touches on their opponent's foot alone, so sreckiki's account isn't something so "out of the ordinary". You can do it too!

Try to foresee where your opponent's foot will be, then, when they are coming forward, feint to hand as nahouw describes, and go for the foot. Try to keep your hand up to eventually remise if you miss.

Practice makes perfect!

[carlos]

I'm not accurate enough--yet--to hit the foot with consistency. But my opponents don't know that! So I try a few just to keep them honest.

[dreamer90024]

I don't use foot touches a lot, but one or two in a bout can set the whole thing up for me. I'll flick to the hand/forearm one or twice to get the other fencer scared of it until they start to parry, then I feint flick to the hand and lunge to the foot. Then in the rest of the bout I can feint to the foot and then take the blade when they go for the counterattack. I like foot touches, but I do try not to rely on one or two moves because it gets predictable.

[One and Only...]

Occasionally I'll throw them in. It partially depends on what guard I'm using.

[angriff]

I do it only as a riposte following an octave parry.. I can't shake out of the habit of looking down before going to the foot (this has earned me more than a few stop hits to the mask)

[keith]

.. and for those who get hit on the foot alot, all the preceeding talk of how to hit the foot should emphasis the absolute importance of balance. Foot hits often break down when an opponent is able to rapidly adjust the weight on their feet, and that can only happen if you are in proper balance between your two feet, even when transitioning between steps forward and back.

Against compulsive foot hitters I often trail my front foot while stepping backwards - then when they go for it whap them in the mask or neck.