Sabre lame/glove

[LUDICROUS]

Just a question, do most sabreurs have a lame cuff, or do they have purposely long lame sleeves? A sabreur at my club has long sleeves instead of a cuff.

Is such a thing illegal at FIE level competitions?

[AndrewH]

Lame cuffs, or overgloves, are required at all USFA competitions (FIE too). Even if the lame sleeve is long enough to cover the required target, for safety reasons you have to wear the overglove to stop a blade from sliding up your sleeve. Most sabreurs nowadays prefer the "electric glove', its a padded sabre glove with a lame cuff. Makes for less layers over the wrist. Most manufacturers make them, I've gone through several and am pleased with the Uhlmann model I have right now.

[whtouche]

I'm not at all sure that overgloves are required for safety reasons. Infact, you are required to wear your glove outside your jacket for safety reasons, but the lame has nothing to do with that.
But yeah, it's mostly required. I think the rules only state that lame material has to come to the wrist but it isnt really enforced that way.
I know bill hall wears an infinity lame and has sewn a finger strap to it to keep it tight.
Not sure if he actually uses a cuff at international/national stuff tho.

[DHCJr]

There is a safety issue. If the blade goes up the sleeve and breaks, it has no place to go, but into the fencer. As was stated the glove is supposed to go out side the jacket, in fact both jackets. If the blade slips through the manchete, no problem.

When electric Sabre started, I suggested the manchete, because of all the wear that went on. The lame material on whatever you used manchete or glove failed to quickly. The manchete was much cheaper. Now with the reduced target area, it does not fail as often. I also suggest a Sabre glove.

[sabreur]

I hate electric gloves--that nasty hole that the body wire goes through gives me the willies--I feel like every artery in my wrist is just hanging out there.

I wear a regular glove over my fencing jacket, under the lame. I run the body cord between the lame sleeve and the glove, with the manchette over everything (being in Europe, I can use the tube style manchette).

Much more secure feeling. Also, for practice, I don't bother with the manchette, which saves wear and tear on it.

The thing about a blade going up the sleeve of your lame is one of the smellier red herrings I've ever heard--you still are protected by your glove, over your regular jacket. I think the risk of a blade getting into the body wire hole of an lame glove is much greater, and you don't have any back-ups then--the blade would be right up against your skin..

[DHCJr]

It appears I did a poor job of explaining. I was not talking about the blade going up the jacket sleeve, but the lame sleeve. If the blade breaks, it is trapped within the sleeve. It will be directed forward only. Many people believe the urban legend that an FIE is proof against sharp objects. Kevlar and Ballistic Cotton were not designed for knives, but for bullets. A knive or other sharp object will go through.

Armorers in the U.S., their First, Last and Always job is Safety.

Many have a second glove for practice and for a spare.

[AndrewH]

Reminds me of a certain "infamous" event in the NJ division, when a sabre blade entered through the body cord hold of a glove and went in to the wrist, blunt, up to the bone then snapped off. I happened to be an eyewitness, there was surprisingly little blood, and the fencer in question was back in action after a couple months, but it was still way too close to a major artery/nerve for comfort.

[oso97]

Originally Posted by AndrewH

Reminds me of a certain "infamous" event in the NJ division, when a sabre blade entered through the body cord hold of a glove and went in to the wrist, blunt, up to the bone then snapped off. I happened to be an eyewitness, there was surprisingly little blood, and the fencer in question was back in action after a couple months, but it was still way too close to a major artery/nerve for comfort.

*shudder*

Major Willies....

[KD5MDK]

Hmm... I've always put my glove on over my lame, and then added the cuff over that. Is there anything wrong with that? Target area is the same, protection of the forearm ought to be the same, and it is much easier to take off and put back on if I need the dexterity.

[sabreur]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

It appears I did a poor job of explaining. I was not talking about the blade going up the jacket sleeve, but the lame sleeve. If the blade breaks, it is trapped within the sleeve. It will be directed forward only. Many people believe the urban legend that an FIE is proof against sharp objects. Kevlar and Ballistic Cotton were not designed for knives, but for bullets. A knive or other sharp object will go through.

Armorers in the U.S., their First, Last and Always job is Safety.

Many have a second glove for practice and for a spare.

I understand exactly what you are saying--what I'm saying is that it is wrong. An electric glove over a lame, with the bodycord hole exposing the wrist poses a far greater risk than a standard glove over the jacket, under the lame, with or without a manchette. The risk of a blade going between the lame and jacket and breaking is infinitesimal. The risk of a blade, broken or not, entering the bodywire opening is considerably more real.

The event that AndrewH describes is exactly what I mean.

MR

[Inquartata]

I use a manchette. The gloves are thicker and thus hotter at the cuff, and the air doesn't circulate as well, so their lame part will deteriorate faster due to increased perspiration. Moreover, many glove cuffs are on the short side, and ride down more easily. Nor are they as easily shifted up the forearm, because the glove prevents this---a particular problem if you have long fingers: the glove forces you to wear the cuff so that it comes down below the wrist bones, giving your opponent extra target area. The manchette OTOH can simply be tugged up to where you want it.