Re: [CFML] Rapier fought like Foil ???

Stephen-

I do recall your paper, in part because I was a reader on it before it was
published (Steve Hick asked me to) and then of course because I was curious
about the paper in its' published form.

Regarding the 35 inches, you can effect an arrest or time thrust into
another man's cut at dueling sabre - where the blade length is 34 inches.
They work quite well. What's critical is the point at which you intercept
the incoming cut, and the angle at which you position your strong while
keeping your point in-line with his body. Radaelli refers to these as
"colpi di tempi" (singular =3D "colpo di tempo"), and Barbasetti, whose tex=
t
closely follows Radaelli's, also uses them and their derivatives.
Barbasetti's English translation somewhat unfortunately refers to them as
"stop thrusts" (reflecting contemporary translation of French terminology);
Gaugler groups these under "counteroffense", covers the specifics as
"arrests", clarifies that they can be used with opposition as well as
avoidance, and notes the related grouping of "time thrusts".

As for degrees of certainty, all I can say is that it was considered certai=
n
enough by a few generations of classical Italian to be included in their
teachings. By page count it might not be considered the largest part of th=
e
arsenal, but when you consider the strong, strong tactical emphasis on
counterattacks and countertime found in the classical Italian schools, I
think it's fair to say that the techniques found considerable favor. And a=
s
for page count, once you've noted that the swordsman must close the line
with sufficient opposition to deflect or arrest the incoming blow, what mor=
e
is there to say, really?

Best,

Sean

Sean Hayes
Maestro d=B9armi
Northwest Academy of Arms
http://www.northwestacademyofarms.com/

"Popular is a tricky word. People in large numbers don't always have the
best taste." - Richard Thompson

on 2/10/05 2:30 AM, Stephen Hand at sjhand@bigpond.net.au wrote:

>=20
> Hi Sean,
>=20
> Well it's not that simple. 35" is around the critical length that you nee=
d
> to attack with opposition, where your weapon can reach from his forte to =
his
> body and sufficiently into it to do damage. Against cuts you really need =
all
> the length you can get as your sword must physically be in his body and
> parrying his sword at the same time. Against thrusts, as in Italian foil =
and
> epee the angulation and the timing, the "picking up and riding in" of his
> blade (to use an intensly technical term :-) ) allow you to get away with
> attacks in opposition more often with a weapon right down at the critical
> length. It's a complicated subject which I wrote a 12,000 word paper on i=
n
> SPADA, but suffice it to say that I wouldn't like to try counterthrusting=
in
> opposition against a cut with a 35" blade. That's why I said that you
> couldn't do it with any degree of certainty, not that you couldn't do it =
at
> all.
>=20
> Cheers
> Stephen Hand
> Stoccata School of Defence
> http://www.stoccata.org
> Chivalry Bookshelf
> http://www.chivalrybookshelf.com
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sean Hayes" <seanhayes@northwestacademyofarms.com>
> To: <classicalfencing@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 3:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [CFML] Rapier fought like Foil ???
>=20
>=20
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> on 2/9/05 4:14 PM, Stephen Hand at sjhand@bigpond.net.au wrote:
>> It's complicated and depends very much on the style you use. A 35" blade
> is
>> too short to perform attacks in opposition with any degree of certainty,
>> which is why rapier blades were longer.
>=20
> Umm, Stephen? Classical Italian foil and epee using a 35" blade do attac=
ks
> and counterattacks (with opposition) just fine, thanks.
>=20
> Sean
>=20
> Sean Hayes
> Maestro d=B9armi
> Northwest Academy of Arms
> http://www.northwestacademyofarms.com/
>=20
> "Popular is a tricky word. People in large numbers don't always have the
> best taste." - Richard Thompson
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