Your non sword arm... foil/epee

[Go? Fencing?]

I usually keep my back hand up. I have a shoulder problem though (well, that is to say, a different shoulder problem on the left than the problem on the right) which causes my shoulder to get really tight, to the point of much pain and tears at times, so when it starts hurting too much, I often drop my arm down behind me. All the same, I prefer it up.

[wildmoppet]

Aanyway... I hold mine straight out behind me, it's become a habit I guess. But I probably shouldn't because people can tell my mood quite easily from the height/way I hold it.
And I was recently told that I fence with my shoulders way too tense.
How do I work about stopping that? Please help me!

[ducdequenelles]

What are the advantages or disadvantages to holding your arm up in the classical and modern positions? I'm a newbie, and so far I haven't experimented with the modern position.

[melihop]

i used to have my hand up in classicness.. but my hand laways fell asleep while i was fencing in DEs.. so... once i wasn't a novice anymore... i was allowed to experiment with my own styles... and.. for now.. if it like.. behind me.. hanging out.. lol.. but.. i keep gettign hit in my back hand.. even though i am not covering target.. which is weird... beacuse its foil.. and.. i never get hit in the hand for epee..... so where my hand is is going to change soon.. to somthing that dones't make me look like i hit my hand with a hammer.. and doesn't make my hand fall asleep!

[mackillian]

For the shoulders being too tense, it's all about relaxing, and sometimes, CONCENTRATING on relaxing your shoulders.

[guy_smiley]

Way to much information...

Oh c'mon, that took a lot of thought, and was pretty damn funny...

[Cavatione]

My off arm is always in the classical italian style. Behind. It's a mechanical logic for the "a fondo", the lunge; in order to make it more explosive. And for a matter of balance while you march profiled.

[Aziz]

Besides the whacks to the hand, our coach was very good at encouraging us to keep our hand up. If your hand dropped for to long your vision and hearing would go suddenly disappear a couple of seconds followed by a deafening ringing sound. When the ringing went away you would here "VAT ARE YOU DOING RANG" (Hungarian accent). Yes — an epee to the head. If he timed it right it would coincide with the blow to the hand and besides making him very happy it is a very effective sort of encouragement.

I strongly recommend it to any coaches out there. The best part of it is seeing the reaction of the younger students who have no first hand knowledge of corporal punishment.

Another good reason for keeping your hand up is when you extend it with the lung your lung is much faster. It really helped me to score more often when I got in the habit of doing it correctly.

[leia]

That sounds like what a certain coach i know likes to threaten (and no, never seen him carry through though)

Hm, ive never dropped my habit of keeping it up in a classical position from my first lesson. Its always been perfectly comfortable and relaxed for me.

[Larrison]

I also usually keep my hand in the classical "scorpion" position behind the shoulder. This is because this was how I was originally taught (oh so many years ago..) But also because after I looked at it and thought about it and figured that it made sense as a little added thrust in a lunge and in throwing it up and pulling back, you got a little more force (and speed) in recovering from a lunge. I've noted that as I get older, my hand is "drooping" so its not the classical "C" shape with the hand above and behind the head -- but with the hand relaxed and somewhat forwards (still down-strip, behind the target area ,though)

A couple of comments though --- when I was taught we were also taught to make sure the hand (and arm and shoulder) were relaxed. A good drill is go go on guarde, hold the position, and then shake the hand limply and roll the shoulders. Are they tight? relax them!

Secondly, I'm currently trying to break a slight bad habit. When I lunge I throw my arm down (as expected), but the hand and forearm end up at the small of my back. This is a semi circular motion, that I think I'm doing as that as I lunge, I twist my shoulder somewhat with a "drooped" hand -- and this flips the hand back and around so it ends up behind the small of my back. Gets me a slightly longer lunge. But with the hand behind the small of my back I'm slower to recover, since my hand has to come out and sideways to get back into its usual position. My solution is to refine my form and go back to the classical scorpion "C" hand position, with shoulders parallel to the strip. *sigh* back to footwork drills, slowly and in front of a mirror to work on form again...

[Elemental]

I used to keep my hand in classical style but after a few months of training I just let hang down relaxed. The problem was I would get too tense in a bout and end up drawing my hand up to the side. Once I started getting red cards for covering target I started keeping my back hand up in classic form again.

[Pancakes]

In foil, it's all over the place, in epee, my elbow is jammed into my side. I don't know why.

[VERITAS]

I hold my arm up, in the classical manner, and I find that it greatly reduces the tension in my sword arm, funnily enough. But then I always was odd...

I quite agree. If you are taught it properly and practice it enough to become familiar, it does help with overall balance, including the sword arm. At least in my experience.

My off arm is always in the classical italian style. Behind. It's a mechanical logic for the "a fondo", the lunge; in order to make it more explosive. And for a matter of balance while you march profiled.

Behind the back, or behind, and cocked up? Not that it matters terribly much. It works nicely either way, for adding to the explosiveness of a lunge, as well as being able to recover from such a lunge.

I think that with weapons and rules that say you cannot parry with the off-hand, and that count hits on the off-arm as valid (in 2 out of 3 weapons), it makes a lot of sense to keep it out of the way. Besides that, the main purpose is for balance and posture.

A couple of comments though --- when I was taught we were also taught to make sure the hand (and arm and shoulder) were relaxed. A good drill is go go on guarde, hold the position, and then shake the hand limply and roll the shoulders. Are they tight? relax them!

Very true. You can always tell an opponent is tense if the back arm is rigid, and the hand bunched up. That makes balance and fluidity more difficult.

Recently, when I get tired, I occasionally let the arm slip down & forward--very bad for me. This throws my whole equilibrium off, and turned a small, profiled target into a vast expanse of unguarded target asking to be hit. And it was hit.
The extra training of endurance to keep the arm up and back is definitely worth it.

charley

[ThatReallyHurt]

Hmm... elbow held away from my side. Arm bent at the elbow, hand open and relaxed, held away from my hip... Hmm. Kind of like this:



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/ \

Keep in mind this isn't entirely accurate - I don't often wear a hat

[bleeblue]

Normally like this (I'm on the right)...

epee with exposed legs? shame on you!!!!

[Alain]

epee with exposed legs? shame on you!!!!

He didn't hit me. I move too quick (and it was a big park).............

[Alain]

epee with exposed legs? shame on you!!!!

S'alright, he didn't hit me - I move too quick (and it was a big park).............

[mrbiggs]

I fence usually in more or less a classic en guarde. When I get tired, or I feel that I'm too tense, and I don't plan on lunging soon (in a defensive foil or epee match), I drop my hand down to my hip. I keep my elbow up, in case I need to lunge.

My #1 pet peeve in fencing (this will be a thread in a second, just thought of it) is people who keep their arms STRAIGHT down. This means that they usually can't lunge, and they just do a sort of hop. When, from time to time, someone has good enough footwork so they can lunge despite the arm, they usually fall over. When they don't fall over, they can't recover, and get hit on ripostes. It's one thing when an experienced fencer does it, it's quite another when a new fencer drops their arm after a month.

[epeezack]

By my side. I keep it relaxed and down. I don't even throw it back when I lunge.

[epee1]

Usually my arm's down with my fingers dangling next to my hip. I have a bad tendency to play with my nails when I'm about to attack though, so maybe it wouldn't be the best place for yours. I suggest just keeping it where you feel most comfortable. Just remember it's supposed to be used as a counter balance when you lunge.