Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 02-01-2005, 06:56 PM

hey, what kinda of stuff does it take to build a buzzer that is set to epee timings, 1/25th of a second, that will buzz for 3 seconds or so after a touch? I'm looking to build basically a little box you can hook up to your epee for training, to test flicks and stuff on the dummy. Diagrams please..... TY.

DangerMouse · 02-01-2005, 07:53 PM

The 1/25th of a second is the lockout time after you hit that your opponent has to hit for a double. The tip only needs to be depresses instantaneously.

Alain · 02-01-2005, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

hey, what kinda of stuff does it take to build a buzzer that is set to epee timings, 1/25th of a second, that will buzz for 3 seconds or so after a touch? I'm looking to build basically a little box you can hook up to your epee for training, to test flicks and stuff on the dummy. Diagrams please..... TY.

Um, perhaps it's not quite as much fun, but if I understand what you're talking about I think you can actually buy one... http://www.duellist.com/UK/fencing.c...g-Aids&pid=960

This is from Duellist, but I'm sure other manufacturers make them too

Hope this helps!

downunder · 02-01-2005, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DangerMouse

The 1/25th of a second is the lockout time after you hit that your opponent has to hit for a double. The tip only needs to be depresses instantaneously.

actually i think you'll find there is a required contact time also... can't be bothered finding it...

mrbiggs · 02-01-2005, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by downunder

actually i think you'll find there is a required contact time also... can't be bothered finding it...

I beleive it's 2 ms.

DangerMouse · 02-01-2005, 09:03 PM

For a training device, it's negligable. It definitely wouldn't be worth the extra parts when building an analog device.

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 02-01-2005, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alain

Um, perhaps it's not quite as much fun, but if I understand what you're talking about I think you can actually buy one... http://www.duellist.com/UK/fencing.c...g-Aids&pid=960

This is from Duellist, but I'm sure other manufacturers make them too

Hope this helps!

Thats exactly what I'm talking about.... what parts would I need to make one?

ThatReallyHurt · 02-01-2005, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

what parts would I need to make one?

Two 555 (or one 556) timers, a few resistors and capacitors, a piezo buzzer (don't just buy an element, they don't buzz themselves), 9 volt battery.

If you're not interested in looking for a required contact time, then it's easy as pie. If you're looking to wait for exactly 25ms or 2ms or whatever was mentioned, then it's a little more complicated.

cowpaste · 02-01-2005, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatReallyHurt

Two 555 (or one 556) timers, a few resistors and capacitors, a piezo buzzer (don't just buy an element, they don't buzz themselves), 9 volt battery.

If you're not interested in looking for a required contact time, then it's easy as pie. If you're looking to wait for exactly 25ms or 2ms or whatever was mentioned, then it's a little more complicated.

Are 555 timers accurate in the milisecond range?

glowstix · 02-01-2005, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatReallyHurt

Two 555 (or one 556) timers, a few resistors and capacitors, a piezo buzzer (don't just buy an element, they don't buzz themselves), 9 volt battery.

If you're not interested in looking for a required contact time, then it's easy as pie. If you're looking to wait for exactly 25ms or 2ms or whatever was mentioned, then it's a little more complicated.

why would you need a capacitor?? its a 9VDC battery right. oddly enough, i was just thinking of making one myself.

DangerMouse · 02-02-2005, 01:03 AM

You need the cap to set the time on the 555

ThatReallyHurt · 02-02-2005, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowpaste

Are 555 timers accurate in the milisecond range?

To a point. The 555 itself isn't often a problem, it's the tolerances of the external components. That's why I was wondering if DFP really wanted the 2ms or 25ms or whatever timing set on it, or if he was just looking for something that buzzed when he successfully pressed the button, regardless of time depressed...

telkanuru · 02-02-2005, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowpaste

Are 555 timers accurate in the milisecond range?

yes, but the accuracy of 555 timers varies greatly with factors such as temperature, due to the nature of the timing circuit. A 555 can oscillate at speeds from once and never again to ~200MHZ with the right resistance-capacitance combo

cowpaste · 02-02-2005, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatReallyHurt

To a point. The 555 itself isn't often a problem, it's the tolerances of the external components. That's why I was wondering if DFP really wanted the 2ms or 25ms or whatever timing set on it, or if he was just looking for something that buzzed when he successfully pressed the button, regardless of time depressed...

That's a really good point, and a really hard problem to combat too. I think DFPHado should go with a microprocessor instead.

CvilleFencer · 02-02-2005, 10:14 AM

I hate to bring it up since our friends on the board are having who actually think that soldering is fun seem to be having a grand ole time, but you can usually buy them cheaper than you can buy the parts, as you will need to get all the stuff above plus a case to put it in, and either banana plugs so it can go straight into a socket (this kind sucks as you can only use if for one weapons instead of both) or recevier plugs for a body cord.

I actually have one that will work with foil and epee (it use's your body cord) that has led lights (so it can also be used as a weapons tester) and a buzzer. It is brand new, I just don't need it. I will sell it to you for $15 if you would like. This one is essentually the TT8 that LP sells for about $40. You can take a look at it here: http://www.leonpaulusa.com/fencing/a...d_Test_55.html I don't think it would be more than about $3 to ship to you, and should get there in a couple of days. Just send me your address if you want, and I will give you my paypal account. If you want I will drop it in the mail to you.

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 02-02-2005, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CvilleFencer

I hate to bring it up since our friends on the board are having who actually think that soldering is fun seem to be having a grand ole time, but you can usually buy them cheaper than you can buy the parts, as you will need to get all the stuff above plus a case to put it in, and either banana plugs so it can go straight into a socket (this kind sucks as you can only use if for one weapons instead of both) or recevier plugs for a body cord.

I actually have one that will work with foil and epee (it use's your body cord) that has led lights (so it can also be used as a weapons tester) and a buzzer. It is brand new, I just don't need it. I will sell it to you for $15 if you would like. This one is essentually the TT8 that LP sells for about $40. You can take a look at it here: http://www.leonpaulusa.com/fencing/a...d_Test_55.html I don't think it would be more than about $3 to ship to you, and should get there in a couple of days. Just send me your address if you want, and I will give you my paypal account. If you want I will drop it in the mail to you.

Eh, does it use the epee timings? The reason I'm so snippity about this is that I need something that will tell me whether or not my flicks are going off or not when I work on my dummy at home. You can work for 3 months on your flicks, but unless you know that they're going to go off when you flick in real life, its practice wasted.

cowpaste · 02-02-2005, 12:05 PM

Honestly, I don't think you should worry about the 2 [ms] required contact time. I really don't think that flicks "last" any shorter than that. My experience is with foil, but I don't think there would be a significant difference with épée. If my friend lent me an épée, I guess I could do some tests.

CvilleFencer · 02-02-2005, 01:11 PM

Cowpaste is right. With epee, the 2ms contact time is lower than human perception, and 1ms vs. 2ms is not only to short to measure short of testing equipment/lab work, it will have no differance on your flicks, especially in epee. For epee a flick has to do two things. It has to hit, and it has to make contact. In a bout, as opposed to pratice with a partner or on a dummy, most of why they fail, at least for me, is my distance is not correct, or the person move his arm or retreats, meaning that my flicks hit a receding target as opposed to a stationary or oncoming (the best kind since they pust the tip in for you) target.

I have been using a buzzer like this for a few weeks now and it has helped me a great deal in judging and landing my flicks, and since it uses a body cord and can stay in my back pocket I can use it to drill or do target work even when I am not on the strip. If you have two of them for all intents and purposed you can fence even without a box or reels as long as it is epee, you and your partner have a good feel for timing of double hits and you do not normally use a grounded strip to train on. Really, it is the preasure on the tip and the movement of your opponent that are important for epee flicks, not the 1ms vs. 2 ms contact times. Now on foil, it is a whole differant thing now that they have the new timings.

ThatReallyHurt · 02-02-2005, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowpaste

That's a really good point, and a really hard problem to combat too. I think DFPHado should go with a microprocessor instead.

Yeah - Z80 all the way!

Aerevon · 02-02-2005, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CvilleFencer

I hate to bring it up since our friends on the board are having who actually think that soldering is fun seem to be having a grand ole time, but you can usually buy them cheaper than you can buy the parts, as you will need to get all the stuff above plus a case to put it in, and either banana plugs so it can go straight into a socket (this kind sucks as you can only use if for one weapons instead of both) or recevier plugs for a body cord.

the parts aren't too expensive, I made one that works for foil for about 10 bucks. The thing with foil is that you have too hook it up with a transistor for the trigger to the IC, because the foil tip works by opening the circuit, not closing it. But if you just want an epee one, you can hook up a 555 in monostable mode, which is explained at http://www.doctronics.co.uk/555.htm
like you said though, the most annoying part is getting it all to fit nicely into a box and getting the plugs to fit-I improvised with paperclips for awhile but that definatly stops working quickly. I'd say though, if you have the patience, build your own...but be prepared to do a lot of tweaking before you get it right.