"Halt!"

[D'Artag-NOT]

Is there some new thing that directors aren't saying "Halt!" any more?

I was in competition yesterday. In the first bout in my pool I acted as timekeeper and had the devil of a time because the director kept forgetting to call "Halt!" Whenever the box sounded, both fencers just stopped and the director made her determination. Made it very difficult to time the bout, because I've been trained to listen for the director's "Halt!" before considering the action stopped. When I told the director, "Excuse me--I'm not hearing your 'Halt", she was chagrined--she just kept forgetting to say it.

I would have thought that it was just that fencer (an excellent fencer, by the way), except that other directors during the pool kept failing to call "Halt!" as well.

Is this some new trend? Have other people noticed this?

[esskreemr]

I haven't fenced this year, but that is a bad habit to get into. Not only does it present a dangerous situation to the fencers (one might continue fencing when the other stops), it is also training them to listen/watch the box instead of the director. A really bad habit to learn.

[oiuyt]

No, you merely had a bad referee. It's a common problem among people who have little tournament refereeing experience and typically only referee in club settings.

-B :)

[oso97]

Only time I saw "halt" called in Overland Park was when someone stepped off the side or back of the strip.

Of course I spent the vast majority of my time refereeing sabre.

Actually, come to think of it I think there were a couple of crossovers and turning the backs that also got called.

But certainly not after every action.

[counter riposte]

Would help to know which weapon.

In epee, I've been instructed to call halt 2-3 seconds after the action. What you see might not actually be what you saw.

[duel mom]

Yes, I have certainly noticed epee directors at competitions failing to call halt. They also fail to raise either hand to show point. In fact many of them I cannot even hear as a spectator. I must watch the lights which is sometimes difficult when others block your view. Epee directors seem to be the least animated of all weapons. I guess the calls are boring to the directors but not to the fencers and spectators. This bears watching by bout committees or somebody.

[keith]

one difference with epee is that a good ref will let the action go for longer than would happen in foil. The downside is that some epee refs just don't bother calling halt until the fencers either collapse in a heap of arms and legs or start hitting the furniture.

[Purple Fencer]

Or you could get the guys who call halt 18 times on one action...one loud one is enough, guys.

I always call it (I think)

[haroldbuck]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Or you could get the guys who call halt 18 times on one action...one loud one is enough, guys.

I always call it (I think)

Some coaches tell you to "Fence until the second halt" to make sure you don't let up early. So two halts is fine. I agree that 18 is excessive.

[oso97]

Originally Posted by haroldbuck

Some coaches tell you to "Fence until the second halt" to make sure you don't let up early. So two halts is fine. I agree that 18 is excessive.

Not to be too much of an *** but if someone continues fencing past a clearly audible "halt" while I'm refereeing, I'll be nice and give them a verbal warning for the first one.

After that, expect to be carded.

[Elemental]

Originally Posted by oso97

Not to be too much of an *** but if someone continues fencing past a clearly audible "halt" while I'm refereeing, I'll be nice and give them a verbal warning for the first one.

After that, expect to be carded.

I was warned about that once. I then politly asked the ref to say halt louder. The place the tournament was at has strips that are about 2 feet from each other and it can be hard to hear when there are saber bouts being fenced right next to you.

I don't know how a director can expect fencers to rely on the sound of the box for indication of a touch. I've lost touches in casual bouts at my school b/c someone elses box goes off and I stop fencing thinking it's my strips.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Or you could get the guys who call halt 18 times on one action...one loud one is enough, guys.

I always call it (I think)

The rapid fire "halt, halt, halt, halt" is generally considered a sign of an unsure referee and will, if being observed at a national event, garner one a comment from an FOC to stop doing it (was never one of the problems that I had/have, but I've had a couple of friends who had to work to overcome the habit and received such advisements).

-B :)

[D'Artag-NOT]

Originally Posted by Elemental

I don't know how a director can expect fencers to rely on the sound of the box for indication of a touch. I've lost touches in casual bouts at my school b/c someone elses box goes off and I stop fencing thinking it's my strips.

That's what I was wondering--whether this is another example of the phenomenon of fencers (and, in this case, the director) depending too much on the box. As we all know, a lot of fencers are in the habit of stopping to glance at the box every time it goes off--or every time they think it goes off!

And just FYI, the weapon in question was foil.

[SwordSoul]

i've given what i thought was a loud and clear halt (loud enough to halt another bout in progress on accident ) and the fencers continue to fence... after that i've given the rapid-fire halt. i suppose i should just warn to stop after the halt?

[Hurriranger]

I'm not a ref of any sort but i have to help out with the little guys and that involves reffing.... Sometimes you see them lunge at each other, do the weirdest stuff you've ever seen and i called halt without a lgiht coming up because i was SURE that someone must of hit something, even if it was off target! urgh

[Teme]

When refereeing people who know what they're doing, it often happens that they've already ceased fencing when you realize it's about time to call 'halt'. There's one light up, and both fencers are already returning to starting lines, so just let it pass and go for the phrasing. A bad habit, I admit, but almost unavoidable when fencing with smart folks who all know each other rather well. Problems arise when one of the fencers is 'new' and doesn't know when the action is definitely over and can't see the other already stopped fencing.

If unhappy with the ref, just stay alert and on guard until s/he is forced to call halt, albeit late, to proceed the bout in orderly manner.

[haroldbuck]

Originally Posted by Hurriranger

I'm not a ref of any sort but i have to help out with the little guys and that involves reffing.... Sometimes you see them lunge at each other, do the weirdest stuff you've ever seen and i called halt without a lgiht coming up because i was SURE that someone must of hit something, even if it was off target! urgh

In foil and saber, you can say you applied the rule about the fencing becoming confused and being unable to follow the phrase to explain away the halt.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by SwordSoul

i've given what i thought was a loud and clear halt (loud enough to halt another bout in progress on accident :darwin:) and the fencers continue to fence... after that i've given the rapid-fire halt. i suppose i should just warn to stop after the halt?

No, in this case the additional halt(s) are reasonable as a safety precaution. Some referees are in the habit of ALWAYS calling out rapid-fire halts, that's what's poor form.

I don't think I've ever warned a competitor against continuing to fence after a halt. It would require some fairly severe transgressions in order to do so. If it's a safety situation, then yes, I would step in. If it's just finishing up actions (or a situation such as hitting, receiving a halt, with an immediate parry and riposte for a second hit) I wouldn't bat an eye. Fencers SHOULD finish their actions.

-B :)

[oso97]

Obviously there is a fine line to walk there. But its usually pretty clear when a competitor has heard the halt and decides to keep on going anyway.