Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

mifencer · 01-31-2005, 01:42 PM

I just got this from the Fencing Official site (www.fencingofficials.org):

Chest Protectors
The Executive Committee of the FIE has issued a ruling regarding the use of chest protectors for Foil:
"Breast protectors/chest protection : The use of breast protectors/chest protection at Foil is authorised for Men and Women providing that they are worn directly on the skin for Men and over the T-shirt for Women. Urgent decision. Immediate application."

Am I the last one to know: when men who are using the chest protector, had to wear them directly on the skin?

keith · 01-31-2005, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mifencer

Am I the last one to know that men are using the chest protectors, that they had to be directly on the skin?

around here yes.

we've all moved on to debating how this event may or may not lead to the collapse of civilization.

mifencer · 01-31-2005, 01:46 PM

Ok, thanks. I didn't get my memo.

For me it's hard to keep track of changes...

Gem · 02-01-2005, 10:45 PM

I asked this question on another thread, but I'm not sure which forum I did it on, so apologies if it's already on here somewhere.

Why do men have to wear chest protectors directly against the skin. If the women can wear a T-shirt (not a sports bra) underneath, why can't the men? Also, if this has to do with the apparrent advantage of wearing a protector: what's the difference between wearing the protector over a T-shirt and not wearing a T-shirt at all? As far as I'm aware there is no rule stating that T-shirts must be worn under the whites.

DHCJr · 02-02-2005, 12:12 AM

This is just a guess, but I think it is just a knee-jerk reaction and old-world mentality. Remember the ladies are required to wear protection, the men are not.

MyrddinsPrecint · 02-02-2005, 12:12 AM

yeah, i had that thought as well, and hadn't actually asked yet.

but... "ditto"

MyrddinsPrecint · 02-02-2005, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gem

I asked this question on another thread, but I'm not sure which forum I did it on, so apologies if it's already on here somewhere.

Why do men have to wear chest protectors directly against the skin. If the women can wear a T-shirt (not a sports bra) underneath, why can't the men? Also, if this has to do with the apparrent advantage of wearing a protector: what's the difference between wearing the protector over a T-shirt and not wearing a T-shirt at all? As far as I'm aware there is no rule stating that T-shirts must be worn under the whites.

yeah, i had that thought as well, and hadn't actually asked yet.

but... "ditto"

Gem · 02-02-2005, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

Remember the ladies are required to wear protection, the men are not.

But that is a bias against the men who for some reason, medical or otherwise, are required to wear a breast plate. I have been told that this ruling was to make it more uncomfortable for men to wear breast plates. An unfair ruling.

The result that I can see is that breast plates will be built into an all-in-one protector shirt/singlet thing that will render this ruling useless.

mrbiggs · 02-02-2005, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gem

I have been told that this ruling was to make it more uncomfortable for men to wear breast plates. An unfair ruling.

No, that's not it at all. (I should hope not, at least.) People were having problems with points not registering on hard surfaces, such as my abs or a hard chest protector. The lamé and jacket on top were a last-minute ruling by the FIE to prevent chest protectors from becoming a necessity in men's fencing, simply because they cause good hits to not register.

DHCJr · 02-02-2005, 09:13 PM

You missed the point! The cold plastic, must be directly next to the skin for men. The ladies are allowed to have a T-shirt underneath.

TooLoftheDeviL · 02-02-2005, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

No, that's not it at all. (I should hope not, at least.) People were having problems with points not registering on hard surfaces, such as my abs or a hard chest protector. The lamé and jacket on top were a last-minute ruling by the FIE to prevent chest protectors from becoming a necessity in men's fencing, simply because they cause good hits to not register.

And the rule doesn't do that. The way it's worded is specifically to cause irritation. Rules to have the protector under the jacket and under the plastron are good ones, but to say it has to be against the skin?

I don't even wear a T-shirt when I fence. I use under armour. There's no way it's fitting under that skin tight stuff, and even if it did, it wouldn't help any points be less deflected. Registering for the Div II NAC this week - very curious to see if someone can let us know how this is all going to go down if I show up to my pool with a chest protector over my under armour come March

Army Fencer · 02-02-2005, 09:16 PM

Ummm.... who's check to see if this will actually be enforced? Are the refs going to have the fencer strip on the strip to make sure that the protective equipment is against the skin?

If the rule is unenforcible, it's not much of a rule.

mrbiggs · 02-02-2005, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

You missed the point! The cold plastic, must be directly next to the skin for men. The ladies are allowed to have a T-shirt underneath.

I knew that that was the rule, but I didn't think that the FIE was specifically targeting men to make them uncomfortable. I thought they wanted as much fabric as possible between the plastic and the lamé. Women were given a break because they all use protectors (and are therefore on equal footing.)

If the rule was, in fact, intended to cause discomfort, I agree that it's quite unfair.

Army Fencer, I was just thinking of that. Doesn't make much sense.

Spike327 · 02-02-2005, 09:27 PM

I thank God every day that I am an epeeist.

That is all.

Gem · 02-02-2005, 10:23 PM

[quote=mrbiggs]
If the rule was, in fact, intended to cause discomfort, I agree that it's quite unfair.
QUOTE]

I can't see there being any other reason for the rule. As I said in my earlier post, there's no rule saying that you have to wear a T-shirt between the protector and the whites.

Gem · 02-02-2005, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TooLoftheDeviL

I use under armour. There's no way it's fitting under that skin tight stuff, and even if it did, it wouldn't help any points be less deflected. Registering for the Div II NAC this week - very curious to see if someone can let us know how this is all going to go down if I show up to my pool with a chest protector over my under armour come March

Is it possible to argue that Under Armour should be exempted on the basis that it is not a "regular" T-shirt? Since the FIE is being so specific in their wordings, perhaps we should wear singlets and argue that they are a form of underwear, not a form of T-shirt...

Inquartata · 02-03-2005, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike327

I thank God every day that I am an epeeist.

That is all.

God doesn't listen to epeeists. You want the other Guy.

telkanuru · 02-03-2005, 07:07 PM

You mean the one in charge of sabreurs?

Inquartata · 02-03-2005, 07:16 PM

"Charge" is correct, but only in regard to the electrification of the sabre blades.

Clearly, sabre is the choice of archangels and seraphim, and all creatures good and pure....

oiuyt · 02-03-2005, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gem

Is it possible to argue that Under Armour should be exempted on the basis that it is not a "regular" T-shirt? Since the FIE is being so specific in their wordings, perhaps we should wear singlets and argue that they are a form of underwear, not a form of T-shirt...

"excempted"? How do you mean? If you're talking about men, the text (in English translation) is: "worn directly on the skin for Men". Unless you're arguing that underarmor should count as skin I don't see what excemption you're hoping for. For women you don't need an excemption to wear underarmor under the protector "and over the T-shirt for Women." where underarmor can be the t-shirt. The FIE ruling DOESN'T say that a t-shirt cannot be worn under the protector, but that the protector must be worn directly on the skin.

Likewise your argument about singlets as underwear... The ruling doesn't allow for underwear beneath the protector either.

Make all the arguments you want, if you haven't read what the ruling calls for you run severe risk of arguing for non-sensical "excemptions".

-B :)