Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

tinasam · 01-31-2002, 08:01 AM

Your views on American Fencing co, and blue-gauntlet.

I just need a starter set that will suit me for a while, I will be upgrading later on. I like how I can get a Leon Paul mask with my stuff at AmFence, but am waiting till monday to order so I get your ideas between the two.
Thanks

swordsen · 01-31-2002, 09:12 AM

AMFence is pretty good stuff but rather pricey. BG is cheap but hasn't impressed me with their stuff in the past.

Arturo · 01-31-2002, 09:59 AM

The most important part of the set is the Mask. So go with the set that provides the highest quality. The Jacket/weapons are easily upgradable and not so expensive.

that's just my opinion and I could be wrong

Methix · 01-31-2002, 11:02 AM

For a starter set I'd recommend the Triplette starter set. Decent equipment at a pretty good price. Main thing I would upgrade is the jacket for a front close. Also, the grip if you want a pistol.

neevel · 01-31-2002, 01:07 PM

The basic rule "you get what you pay for" generally applies, but I do have to say that in this case, BG is probably the better deal for your money. You want to look at their 'next-up-from-bottom' items (i.e., the 'Olympic Mask' instead of the basic 3-W), such as what they list as the 'High Quality' beginner's set. The cotton/nylon jacket is a good basic model, and having the stretch nylon panel in back is also a plus. Getting a washable glove rather than a cheapie leather glove is a good choice(the basic BG glove is washable, though the purple ACG on the high-quality set is nicer).

The Leon Paul mask you get with the American kit may hold up a bit longer than the BG 'Olympic' mask, and very likely better than the bottom-end BG mask. It's uninsulated, however, which means it's technically not legit for competition use. Also, you're only getting a back-zip practice jacket, and the glove isn't washable. The foil presumably will have a France Lames blade, which I doubt would be more durable (FL's non maraging blades aren't very long-lived, and BG's new U.S. made blades are a step up from the Chinese blades they carried previously).

On the whole, I'd say that the $134 for the BG high-quality set w/o bag will be a better choice than the American set. American and Santelli are both pretty good with their mid-range clothing (it's clear why a cotton jacket costs $65 from either of them, rather than $45 from Triplette). At the lower price-points, however, they're not quite as competitive.

A final point is that you may want to forego getting a beginners' set and instead purchase individual items. For example, if you can't afford a complete set of mid/high range gear but could afford a better mask (and thus save the cost of upgrading down the line) in addition to a more basic jacket & glove, that will probably be better in the long run.

-Dave

tinasam · 01-31-2002, 06:05 PM

Thanks...
I was going for the High Quality set and getting upgrades on most of the other things I need. I can still be competition ready with BG for $400, even with upgrading the sets.
Thanks all.

D'Artagnan1673 · 03-11-2002, 10:43 AM

Personally, I think that if you have the money, DO NOT buy a beginners set. I bought one from Blade two years ago and barely used any of the items for more than a few months.

Equipment should be of a high quality so that it will last longer. When it comes to masks, I say Allstar or Uhlmann, there is no difference between the two except that Allstar has red padding and Uhlmann has blue. In fact, go with one of those two copanies if you are serious about fencing and want nice uniforms.

I prefer the Blaise-Ferese blades that Triplette, Allstar and Uhlmann use. However, you will get the TCA weapon at a slightly cheaper price. American fencers uses Russian blades, ones I don't like. Also, a Epeeist at my salle' bought a BG epee, it lasted about 2 weeks before the blade was ruined. Leon-Paul & France-Lames are too whippy to take control of the blade like the Blaise-Ferese weapons do.

Swordswrn · 03-11-2002, 02:23 PM

In just about everything but the practice blades and knickers BG is, in my opinion, a great deal. I used to order for my club from Triplette but their service was absolutely lousy (the last order we placed with them had to be sent back 4 times before they got it right) We've been ordering from BG for 4 years and the the only things I have had to replace from the BG equipment have been some of the practice blades. Their lame`s hold up much better than Triplette's and are a lot cheaper.
A few suggestions if you do order from BG:
-Upgrade to a front zip jacket
-Make sure you specify stainless steel bellguards and an external hex nut if you do order their electrics.
-Order the Prieur body cords (The BG body cords work fine but my division just upgraded to some new Triplette machines and apparently the new machines don't like the BG cords

)
-Ask if your coach would be willing to order it for you. I receive a 15% coaches' discount from BG

I must say though, I am rather partial to Zivkovic grips and they have very good quality electrics if you want to start out with the best. The BG's will take a lot of abuse without breaking but the Zivs have a nicer weighting to them.

Good luck and good fencing

edew · 03-11-2002, 02:58 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Swordswrn:
[...]
A few suggestions if you do order from BG:
-Upgrade to a front zip jacket
-Make sure you specify stainless steel bellguards and an external hex nut if you do order their electrics.
-Order the Prieur body cords (The BG body cords work fine but my division just upgraded to some new Triplette machines and apparently the new machines don't like the BG cords

)
-Ask if your coach would be willing to order it for you. I receive a 15% coaches' discount from BG
[...]
<hr></blockquote>

External hex nut? The one that doesn't use a standard L-shaped allen wrench? Why in the world do you want to do that?

Prieur body cords? Well, actually, aside from the inability to stay in the socket, are pretty good in terms of the wires not breaking. The BG sockets shatter too easily. The Uhlmann wires break too easily.

Stainless steel bell guards last longer, but are heavier, as if that's an issue.

Purple Fencer · 03-11-2002, 03:41 PM

Something else I've noticed ont he "Mr. Chen" body cords. They're basically a copy of the Uhlmann/Allstar 2-prong type, with some changes made to make access to the wire easier. HOWEVER, I've noticed that the retaining clip isn't quite as good as it should be. On my Uhlmann cords, the clip has a little turnback that just fits over the socket, so the cord desn't move. On EVERY "Mr. Chen" someone's brought me at an event ("Sam, fix my body cord...it's broken!"), the clip barely turns back, allowing the plug head to move quite a bit -- enough the pins to break contact with the socket and register an offtarget just by waving the blade about.

Irritating!

fred · 03-13-2002, 07:59 PM

I'm actually partial to the external hex nuts as well. In theory, if it is a simple nut, you can get it to tighten down on a longer length of threaded tang than an inside hex, because you don't need to allow for clearance for the wrench. I also get more leverage with the Prieur-type wrench than the short end of a typical Allen, unless it's close enough to the pommel opening to use it the other way.

On the other hand, the Prieur wrenches seem to be made out of like Monel metal and get chewed up fast.

As always, YMMV.

[ 03-14-2002: Message edited by: fred ]

Purple Fencer · 03-13-2002, 09:23 PM

[quote]Originally posted by fred:
I'm actually partial to the external hex nuts as well. In theory, if it is a simple nut, you can get it to tighten down on a longer length of threaded tang than an inside hex, because you don't need to allow for clearance for the wrench. I also get more leverage with the Prieur-type wrench than the short end of a typical Allen, unless it's close enough to the pommel opening to use it the other way.

[ 03-14-2002: Message edited by: fred ]<hr></blockquote>

Felicia Zimmerman said much the same thing to me last week when I was putting together a foil for a customer. My response was the same as yours...I don't have to be as careful with the tang length. I put the guard on, slide the grip down and mark the tang with a bit of Liquid Paper just at the lowest part of the opening on the grip where the tang comes through...then I cut it a few threads shorter so it doesn't poke the fencer in the palm of the hand.

The only problem I've run into with the outside hex nuts is that if the tang gets bent over a bit and the nut's touching the inside of the grip, it's damnned difficult to get the wrench around it.

I recently had 100 outside hex nut fabricated out of stainless steel. I'm going to try and cut a groove for a slotted screwdriver with my Dremel, just for that sort of emergency. The nuts are expensive (I sell them for $2 each...yeah, it's pricey, but they're made special), but I doubt they'll deform like the brass ones do...and since the place that made them for me is only a few miles from my house, I don't have much of a problem with getting them!

swordsen · 03-13-2002, 11:25 PM

Ok, where are you going to put that slot so that you can get a screwdriver in it while the tang is run through the nut? I am no seeing it work in my mind.

for me, I usually just hit it with a hammer and force the wrench in.

Purple Fencer · 03-14-2002, 06:50 AM

[quote]Originally posted by swordsen:
Ok, where are you going to put that slot so that you can get a screwdriver in it while the tang is run through the nut? I am no seeing it work in my mind.

for me, I usually just hit it with a hammer and force the wrench in.<hr></blockquote>

Oops. you're right! When it happened to me, the tang didn't extend through the pommel.

Hmmm...I wonder if I can grind a slight bevel in to the outside edge of the nut to allow the wrench to slip on....

Tomas N · 03-14-2002, 08:11 AM

I use outside hex nuts sometimes, but I tend to strip them while tightening. Just be careful not to overtighten.

I've never had problems with Triplette...except when they've lost my order, but they're always nice about getting stuff back to you. I've had my Triplette mask for a decade or so, and it is still holding up.

Blue Gauntlet has the worst web page in fencing, (purple on black!), so as a matter or principle, I refuse to order from them.

Tomas

Swordswrn · 03-15-2002, 05:23 AM

All the tangs on my club's blades are rather long and I don't have the tools to cut them down (not that I have the time to do so either)With internal hex nuts I can't tighten the nut enough because at a certain point the end of the tang is level with the top of the notch. With external hex nuts I just use a 3-in-1 screwdriver with the ends taken out. (you have to make sure you get the nice ones that are hollow the whole way through, not that they are expensive, mine was only $3) If I used internal hex nuts with our blades, the blades would be constantly loose. I don't understand why anyone would want to use an internal hex nut. In 11 years I've never had a blade with a tang short enough not to cause a problem.
BG sockets shattering? I've never had one go on me.
As for Prieur body cords coming out, if you use them with the BG blades they don't. Every once in a while they slip out of my Zivkovics though.

Because we are a high school club that does not receive anything from the school, I am on a rather small budget for equipment. BG has been a good deal for us. If you have more money, and are willing to spend a lot on equipment, go for it. My own kit cost almost as much as half of the whole club's equipment. I am very partial to Triplette's quality in jackets and knickers but I HATE their service. For my own equipemnt I order from them but I don't have to replace jackets or knickers very often. I could not deal with them for orders 2 or 3 times a year. <img src="graemlins/crap.gif" border="0" alt="[Crap]" />

D'Artagnan1673 · 03-15-2002, 06:57 AM

I've heard a few complainst about TCA, but I personally have never had any problem with them.

I do think that their bashing of France-Lames is childish and unprofessional, but I do dislike France-Lames as well.

They use the same blades as Allstar & Uhlmann but a little cheaper. I only buy weapons from them. Has anyone tried using the Fencing Post? They've got great deals on uniforms. Uhlmann FIE World Cup jackets for $169.00 and Knickers for $99.00. Their prices are great, but I've found their service a little iffy. Point in case, recently, I placed a big order with them. I don't own a credit card so I overnighted a check to them so that they could deliver the gear by that Friday (it was Monday ). So I spent $12.00 to get a 34 cent envelope to them. I called them Thursday to get a tracking number and they hadn't even opened my envelope yet! I checked and it was signed for on Tuesday.

What was the point of sending it overnight for it to sit there for a few days?

Still, when you can buy an FIE mask, jacket, knickers, plastron and Adidas Equpment fencing shoes for 670.00, I am not going to complain too much.

Purple Fencer · 03-15-2002, 04:36 PM

[quote]Originally posted by D'Artagnan1673:
I've heard a few complainst about TCA, but I personally have never had any problem with them.

I do think that their bashing of France-Lames is childish and unprofessional, but I do dislike France-Lames as well.

They use the same blades as Allstar & Uhlmann but a little cheaper. I only buy weapons from them. Has anyone tried using the Fencing Post? They've got great deals on uniforms. Uhlmann FIE World Cup jackets for $169.00 and Knickers for $99.00. Their prices are great, but I've found their service a little iffy. Point in case, recently, I placed a big order with them. I don't own a credit card so I overnighted a check to them so that they could deliver the gear by that Friday (it was Monday ). So I spent $12.00 to get a 34 cent envelope to them. I called them Thursday to get a tracking number and they hadn't even opened my envelope yet! I checked and it was signed for on Tuesday.

What was the point of sending it overnight for it to sit there for a few days?

Still, when you can buy an FIE mask, jacket, knickers, plastron and Adidas Equpment fencing shoes for 670.00, I am not going to complain too much.

<hr></blockquote>

When did you place the order? if it was within the last few weeks, remember that they were both doing Reno NAC and moving from San Jose to north San Diego County. They've been a liiiitle busy!

Puppet Master · 03-15-2002, 07:10 PM

Why did they move?

D'Artagnan1673 · 03-17-2002, 12:50 PM

Hmm.... it was about 3 or 4 weeks ago I think. I didn't know they were out anywhere. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">