Brain vs. Braun

[Alain]

Hi,

In my opinion, the traditional style of fencing focuses primarily on correct technique. It seems that this has since been challenged by a style advocating only a limited technical competency, backed by super-human fitness and endurance. Surely, the next level (I'm thinking of Jeannet for épée here) incorporates the best of both worlds.

So, what do you think is more important?

Cheers

[Pauli]

I think it does take both....no mind no brain, musceles alone don't bring the brain (I mean, I won't go into further details here, but could give quite some examples...ahem...). And after the little experience I have made so far, it's not about strenght really, it's more the strength endurance.

Actually the good mix of both is what makes the sport so interesting.

[drippingwet]

Originally Posted by Alain

Hi,

In my opinion, the traditional style of fencing focuses primarily on correct technique. It seems that this has since been challenged by a style advocating only a limited technical competency, backed by super-human fitness and endurance. Surely, the next level (I'm thinking of Jeannet for épée here) incorporates the best of both worlds.

So, what do you think is more important?

Cheers

The traditional, and present 'brain' side of fencing seems to be strategy and tactics, rather than technique which may be more to do with the physical side if anything.

If you're just talking about correct technique vs physical dominance, rather than as a way of saying brain vs brawn, then it's just that you mentioned the brain in your title.

If you are just talking about technique vs physical dominance, then there seems to be good technique out there. Sometimes you might get the impression that technique has downgraded because there may have been a lot of marching for example, but now that flicks are more difficult, you may see traditional technique having a bigger role to play. The physical stuff is obviously useful at times, as is correct technique, as is good strategy and tactics. They are all good to have, but I'm not sure that technique has downgraded, just that some bouts, at least with old timings, may not always require 'traditional' stuff (I'm a foilist. Don't know how much what I've said relates to sabre). I don't know how technique would be reduced in epee though. If you think epee is less technique-based these days, then would be interested to hear how, considering it doesn't seem to allow much blade-waving-flick-and-march-fencing.

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by Alain

Surely, the next level (I'm thinking of Jeannet for épée here) incorporates the best of both worlds.

what are you talking about with jeannet?? his game is about finesse and timing. i don't see anything "brawny" about his game; besides he uses the french grip, no brawn possible.

i think brains is the most important thing. i'm a decent fencer but put me up against a guy fencing forever and i'll lose. i lose because he's superior from the neck up. all the speed i have and talent i apparently have usually means nothing when i'm up against those guys. they usually read me like a book.

[Alain]

Okay, true, Jeannet isn't overly buff but he still has qiuck footwork and pommels as well as anyone else (using just 3 fingers, I hear).

You're right, though, after reaching a certain level, in order to win you have to fence smarter, not harder. Also, in competition, even when your legs tire good technique should shine through and save the day

[Insipiens]

oops pressed the wrong button and voted muscle rather than both. brain would edge it I think.

[Boo Boo]

Originally Posted by Insipiens

brain would edge it I think.

ditto....

Boo
(not necessarily practicising what she preaches...)

[akaiyuki]

I wish there was an option for both yet brain is a bit more important :P

[vigia]

I don't know, Braun was quite a Brain, so I'm not sure what you are attempting to poll here...

[Hurriranger]

me eat brains.....protein....build muscles...

[ThatReallyHurt]

Brawn is great, but I don't think you can do well with it alone. Needs to be some brain in there somewhere...

[mrbiggs]

Depends on the weapon. You can get quite far in epee with brains alone, but in foil and sabre, brains simply compliment your physical abilities.

[Army Fencer]

It depends a lot on the age of the fencer, too. A younger fencer is going to have more success with muscle than with smarts. The more mature your fencing becomes, the more you can use your brain to beat your opponent.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

You need both. I've been playing on and off, thinking tactically, and using my physical assets. Sometimes though, your specific physical abilities may not be enough, say, against a fitter opponent, and you will need tactical prowess. However, if your body cannot make use of your tactics, then you're just as screwed.

Example: I need to be more aggresive against someone, well, he's faster and stronger than me, so even if I was more aggresive, I'm not going to be able to hit. So I would say that having a good body and good technique would precede having strong tactics, but once you have the body, you need to develop your tactical game in order to use your new ability.

[Alain]

Yeah, thanks for all your posts I did not one (oh no) but TWO competitions today, and although I found that my fitness was a big bonus in the latter stages, being one step ahead in the thinking game really helped me out

[O_O #2]

both brain and braun help in fencing, but i think everyone knows that fat is more important than both of them put together. If a fencer is fat enough, he can beat anyone.

im 800+ lbs, so not many people can beat me.

[Mr Epee]

Thoughts without actions are useless....

Somepeople "know" how to be strong physical fencers, but are not particularly strong in a general sense. Just being strong and brutish is a sure fire way to get k.o'd

Elmar Borrman was a fencer, who was very strong, and very very fast. He was hyper-intellegent about how his body worked, but was not a particularly cerebral fencer. That said, he could be tricked, and hit on the prep repeatedly. Of course it took a fencer with good feeling, to do this. But then Elmar was a world champion (even though it did involve the little clock standing affair). That was brilliant too.

Sandro Cuomo was also great, but really not particularly strong on the blade. He could rack up win after win, but never made it look like he was punishing anyone. An incredibly intelligent and well trained fencer.

[Coup de Grace]

My fencing coach is 59 years old and nearly one foot shorter than I. He is not a brawny guy, but beats me using years of experience, solid form and an active mind (throw in a lame parry from me and I'm toast). Certainly there are advantages of physical fitness in sport. I believe that the fencer that fights the bout in the head as well as with the trained body, is well equipped to be competitive.

What is more exilirating than observing the tatic you created in your head, play out to perfection in front of your eyes? That is an awesome feeling.
Does this not apply to wheelchair fencers as well?

[Epeecurean]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

But then Elmar was a world champion (even though it did involve the little clock standing affair).

What was the clock standing affair? Do you mean he played for time to run out or something else?

[Grasshopper]

Funny thing is about this one, is that to reach the level where you realize that you don't need much braun, you have to train very very hard, with usually makes you physically stronger anyway.

Training hard even without physical strength goals makes you stronger physically and you can't be a good "brainy" fencer unless you train hard.