The "snap" - how do you do it?

[ThatReallyHurt]

Uhh... quite possibly a silly question - if it is, I apologize...

I realize that everything gets better with practice, but I've watched some experienced fencers during a bout just suddenly (for lack of a better expression) "snap" into a different position, usually scoring a touch in the process. Is there any particular trick to this? Is there a set of muscles you have tensed already, so your opponent doesn't see you getting ready, or is it more a raw ability/speed thing? Do you train specific "snap" motions, and then just know to use them when needed, kind of like doing regular drills like disengages or lunges? Is it pure, unmitigated reflex stemming from panic?

Seriously, it's fascinating to watch - the best one I saw was where one person was being backed into a corner, with no room left to go, and then whammo - got the hit, and I didn't even see her move. Every time I try to do something at a blazing speed, my opponent (and people watching) can see me winding up to do it, at which point it's pretty straightforward - they parry and riposte, and I run away as fast as I can...

Any thoughts?

[KShan5[PrFC]]

don't wind up....?

[kalivor]

The trick: Practice, practice, practice. Then practice some more. Do it slowly and correctly before you do it quickly.

Seriously, you have to be able to do things properly before you can do them quickly. Some of my students don't get this. I have to point out that I'm actually *slower* than they are, but I seem faster than them because I do things right. No wind-ups. No extra motion.

Whatever the "snap" motion you see is, it sounds like it's a basic fencing motion -- lunge, extension, something -- done quickly and properly. They probably aren't even trying to go at "blazing speed." They're just going, because the time is right.

And if it you saw a good fencer get "boxed into a corner" before scoring what sounds like an easy one-light touch, said fencer probably wanted to be "boxed into a corner."

[grotto]

What these "super fast" fencers are good at is efficiency of movement they know exactly how far they need to move the point where their point is, and how to get it there quickly. It really is amazing to watch all of a sudden BAM there they are. I have fenced several A and B epeeist who pretty much can stand there, and **** around till Bam you get tagged. As said before practice practice practice, but not only that practice with purpose, see how little you need to parry to clear your line, how small a disengage you can pull off, how little you can retreat and not get hit on an attack. then add quick extensions without a wind-up, lunges that fire from your back leg without leaning or unhitching your hips, all that stuff takes time and slows you down. you too can be a super fast fencer!

[parrythis]

Having a good "en garde" will help you to avoid "the windup". Make sure you are balanced properly and have your knees bent appropriately. If your stance is correct, you will be like a tightly wound spring, ready to release, and with practice, you should be able to get the "BAM" effect you're looking for.

[wflaschka]

A short while ago, I got Kogler's "One touch at a time" book. I'm only a few chapters in, but I like it very much.

One of the early points he makes is that elite fencers aren't inherently faster than non-elite fencers, or even non-fencers. (Everything in the book is backed up by scholarly studies.) Elite fencers have the same neurology as every other human... it takes XX miliseconds for a prompt to crawl through sensory input into the brain, and the brain takes a big fraction of a second to process a decision. Kogler describes us as living 1/2 seconds behind realtime.

What makes elite fencers so successful is their ability to model what will be happening next in a given action. That is, they can make highly precise predictions about near-term (next-term) events, based on their past experience with similar situations, their feel for bladework and distance, their familiarity with tactical decision trees.

This is all possible to the elite fencer because of experience. It's not the "I have confidence in myself" experience, it's the "deeply ingrained in my bones" experience. Kogler goes on to discuss how eventually, this activity response is moved from the forebrain to the faster hindbrain, where it is more immediately available. In web-browser terms, elite fencers can load pages out of the local cache, while non-elite fencers are still pulling info from their dial-up connection.

All of this supports his central thesis, which is that the fencer's mind is the deciding factor in competition. The rest of the book contains methods and exercises for improving mental strength.

So if Kogler is correct, everybody functions at the same speed, but good fencers use their time better. Not just with more economical technique (which is a big part), but in formulating responses to situations on the strip. This is consonant with my own observations.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

its fast twitch muscles. Do plyometrics. Also, drill every action into your brain again and again and again... say.... 300 lunges per day, 500 extensions per day, 45 minutes of footwork, do every parry 200 times.... and bout as often as possible. Your snappiness will increase. Also, it takes time, to improve, but you can maximize that time by training well. So many of my students dont practice basic extensions and lunges, and they wonder why they fall behind the fencers that do. There are no shortcuts, and you cant halfass your way to victory.

[acaba]

Originally Posted by ThatReallyHurt

Is there a set of muscles you have tensed already <snip>

Definately not! Almost all actions can be done more quickly, smoothly, and accurately if you start from a relaxed position. If you tense up before an action you will tend to wind-up and give it away. Take a simple circle-6 riposte. First try it with a very very firm grip on the weapon, and arm muscles tensed to do the parry. Chances are the parry will come from the elbow, with the guard moving in a big circle and the tip of the blade moving in an even bigger circle. Now try the same action again starting with a very relaxed arm and hand. Hopefully the second action will be smoother and smaller, and at least the same speed or possibly quicker.

The better fencers can 'snap' off an action becaue they have trained it repeatedly. As kalivor said, it has to be trained slowly and correctly. I think correctly means not only proper motion and timing, but also proper level of tension. Too much tension results in wind-ups, sabre cuts from the shoulder, parrys using the elbow, stiff and slow footwork, etc. Too little tension and your parry doesn't actually deflect the blade, or your lunge does not reach the target. I tend to see more people with too much tension rather than too little.

I finally learned to relax after having a Russian coach screaming "loosely, Loosely, LOOSELY!!" in my face continuously for 2 years. But once I loosened up, my fencing improved dramatically.

[Tydive]

Acaba is absolutly correct about being relaxed. One of the best things you can do is keep tension out of your body.

Another step is to lead with your hand and keep the shoulder down. A good way to practice that is with a partner who holds onto your tip while you lunge. Your partner pulls on the tip so that you can feel what it is like having your hand start the movements. When doing it right it feels like the weapon is guiding you to the target and your body is just following the tip/blade. If you try to pull backwards your partner holding the tip will be able to tell you where the motion started and help you to fix it.

[ThatReallyHurt]

Thanks very much for the suggestions, I really appreciate it. It's pretty easy to sit and watch a vastly superior fencer and wonder how they do the stuff they do...

Again, thanks!