Fun with Flicks

[acaba]

Originally Posted by Gav

Set up a couple of boxes (old and new timings) to compare.

Hook up both boxes and the computer to your foil. Then you could show that for each individual action the boxes did/did not light, and the time was X.

Or just switch to epee. Much less effort involved, much more gratifying.

[cowpaste]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, but keep in mind that I'm just one dood with limited resources. I really wanted to set up a super thrusting machine (I would name it "The Cowpaste™") on which I could attach a foil and have the machine thrust the foil with consistent force. Then I thought about the woodworking, the metal working, gears/motors/belts and the price...which made me not want to do it. Any easy way to test if my setup is valid is to hook up and old and new scoring machine, but even that is not easy. First of all, all the machines at my club have the new timings, and secondly, I don't know if the club owner would let me take a machine home. It would be much more convenient if I had a laptop or something that I could bring to practice, but sadly, I do not. Anyway, what I think I'll do is I'll clean up the program a bit and distribute it along with instructions on how to use the parallel port to take in data. Then everyone can go home and do tests of their own.

[Larrison]

I'd appreciate getting a copy of the code and how you set it up -- I've got an old laptop that might be fun to set up and play with down at the club some afternoon...

[mrbiggs]

I have an idea of how you could do a 6th grade science project-style test for straight attacks. (Making flicks consistant would be hard.)

1. Set up a ramp. (I would think that it should be very, very vertical.)

2. Get some type of wheels or cart to minimize friction

3. Attach the blade to the wheels or cart. (Grips aren't necessary, you can just use the tang, and attach it directly.)

4. Put some sort of device at the bottom to measure the amount of force that is generated by dropping the blade from different heights.

5. Hook it up, and drop it from heights at regular intervals on different surfaces at different angles, recording the amount of time, the force exerted on the blade, the surface it was dropped on, and the angle the surface was at.

[cowpaste]

LOL, that is a pretty good idea. However, I would probably set up some pully system that would cause the blade to thrust each time a certain weight was dropped. That way I won't have to keep on dropping my foil on its tip.

[ThatReallyHurt]

You know, every time I peek through this thread, I'm impressed to heck all over again. That's some really neat work you did.

[j4gg3d3dg399]

I agree with ThatReallyHurt

This is most impressive, and I hope it goes well for you Chek!

--
Blake

[wflaschka]

Cowpaste, I think you ought to write up your findings in a scientific, or quasi-scientific article, and send it over to Craig. He's always looking for articles, and this work is simply tremendous.

[foilz]

Originally Posted by cowpaste

I really wanted to set up a super thrusting machine (I would name it "The Cowpaste™") on which I could attach a foil and have the machine thrust the foil with consistent force.

I'm not a statistician, but if you flicked/thrust against a passive human target on the strip, a fencer wearing a lame -- with and without manplate -- full frontal and at an angle -- and if you simply generated enough hits, wouldn't you get statistically reliable data?

Correlating lights with your contact data (despite more complicated electronic rigging and programming) would be icing on the cake.

[pah233]

the statistical power of any comparison is based on the variability within the conditions. So collecting lots and lots of samples is much better than having only a few as is provides a more normal distribution.

[telkanuru]

If and when I can get my hands on the refined code, I intend to set up a test involving both a laptop and old and new boxes, recording each hit, this seems a very good way to do things. Who wants to help?

[cowpaste]

Well, here is the program for everyone to use for fun. I'm pretty much embarrassed to post this at this point. I have put it off for so long. Considering it took me like...30 minutes to do the writeup and stuff for this, I'm rather disappointed in myself. Nevertheless, better late than never. Unzip the file, and read the word document first.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by cowpaste

Well, here is the program for everyone to use for fun. I'm pretty much embarrassed to post this at this point. I have put it off for so long. Considering it took me like...30 minutes to do the writeup and stuff for this, I'm rather disappointed in myself. Nevertheless, better late than never. Unzip the file, and read the word document first.

One question about how to work it. In the instructions, you mention buying a parrallel cable, and cutting it up. I've got a couple questions about this...

1. Is this simply for the purpose of attaching the blade to the computer? In other words, in the picture in the help file, are those two wires coming from the port to the blade part of the cable you cut up?

2. Is there another type of wire that can be used for the same purpose? If so, can it just be somehow stuck right into the port?

3. Is there some way I can break my computer if I screw around with wires and the parallel port?

[epeefencer74]

This is excellent work Cowpaste. Rep point awarded.

I've got an idea that is an extension of telkanuru's. Instead of just performing static hits on targets, why not hook it up to the boxes while 2 fencers are actually fencing and record hits that take place during the bout.

Also since it's more data points that we want, I suggest that once somebody has got the setup working, distribute the program and the setup info to as many people as are willing to participate, and let them gather data from their club equipment.

I agree that you will not be able to control conditions of this test, but this is more like a real world reading rather than a controlled test.

Someone else could conduct a test in a controlled environment for comparison.

[dbell1]

you know, it's really funny that the fencing.net discussion board is talking about this more than the FIE. which begs the question, "why do we even listen to them?" ah, hell., i'm starting a new thread

[cowpaste]

1. Yes, it is just to attack the foil to the computer. The picture simply shows a connector. If you had to wires coming from your foil, you can't just "plug" it into your computer right? You need to attach those wires to a parallel port connector, and then you can plug that connector into your parallel port. I mentioned using a printer cable because those cables all have parallel port connectors.

2. You can use any wire you want really. Just make sure it is flexible enough to handle actions from your blade. Unfortunately, you can't just stick wires into your computer.

3. Don't worry about the parallel port too much. Just DON'T do anything silly like connect a 12 Volt car battery to the port and you should be fine.

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

One question about how to work it. In the instructions, you mention buying a parrallel cable, and cutting it up. I've got a couple questions about this...

1. Is this simply for the purpose of attaching the blade to the computer? In other words, in the picture in the help file, are those two wires coming from the port to the blade part of the cable you cut up?

2. Is there another type of wire that can be used for the same purpose? If so, can it just be somehow stuck right into the port?

3. Is there some way I can break my computer if I screw around with wires and the parallel port?

[reawl]

I've chronicled some of my work in my journal, but I wanted to post the pictures too. And the picture upload doesn't seem to be working :-(

Anyway, the box is set up to accept two floor cords or 2 body cords if you just want to test. The six conductor phone cord then is soldered to the parallel port connector. Right now it's working with Cow's software, so tomorrow I'll spend some time starting my work on writing the software to be a scoring box and I'll keep you abreat of my progress.

My hope is that I'll be posting plans for the connector and have the software up on sourceforge for all to download and contribute to.