C. Montano and preparing for direct attacks

[drippingwet]

I was reading up on set-ups for attacks on preparation and found one that was quite interesting:

"break the distance and repeatedly change direction. This destroys an opponent's concentration and feeling of distance (it is easier to break concentration than build it). After losing contact he might want to regain it too quickly and will usually make a more uncontrolled movement forward (when regaining fighting contact one has to be careful, making preparatory actions to regain one's alertness). C. Montano was one of the fencers who used these tactics to prepare his direct attacks."
-Theory, Methods And Exercises In Fencing (Wojciechowski)

This may be a good way to work, especially against an aggressive/pressing opponent. Do you reckon the writer means that this Montano fella used this to set up all/most of his direct attacks?

Basically I'm wondering:
1. When he talks about breaking distance and changing direction, does this mean that you retreat out of "fighting contact" and then keep moving in and out of "fighting contact," to provoke opponent into coming after you every time you move out of contact?
2. What sort of distance between the fencers is fighting contact? Just advance-lunge?

I don't know anything else about C. Montano, but are there any current fencers who use these tactics?

[keith]

I believe he was of the 70's era - no promises mind.

As to the action - well its first rule of foil, launch your attack on the movement of your opponents front foot. This sounds like a good way of persuading you opponent to make a step forward into your direct attack distance.

I think the distance being refered to is the transition between step-lunge and lunge distance. At step-lunge distance your opponent gets to see the attack develop, but if you can get them to step forward into lunge distance then you've got'em.

[ThatReallyHurt]

Originally Posted by keith

As to the action - well its first rule of foil, launch your attack on the movement of your opponents front foot.

Sorry to ask a newbie question here, but what you mentioned about attacking on the movement of your opponent's front foot - does that also apply when attacking while your opponent is attempting to retreat? I mean, if they're still going to be inside your distance when they've completed one retreating "step" backwards...

[keith]

no sorry I should have been clearer. It's launching the attack as your opponent begins to move their front foot forward - during the preparation!!! If they are straightening their arm and attacking you want to do something else.

If you are pressing the timing is different, you want to catch the opponent as they transition to attack from retreat - time the action so they counter into your attack rather than attack into your preparation.

Also if your opponent is still going to be in your lunging distance after they take a step back you should have hit them already.

[drippingwet]

Originally Posted by keith

I think the distance being refered to is the transition between step-lunge and lunge distance. At step-lunge distance your opponent gets to see the attack develop, but if you can get them to step forward into lunge distance then you've got'em.

Do you mean you think that "fighting contact" is lunging distance?

Hmm, so do you move into and out of lunging distance and attack as opponent tries to regain lunging distance? But if you're constantly moving into and out of of lunging distance, you might get attacked on prep aswell. If you retreat at advance-lunge distance, in order to get your opponent to follow, you're still gonna be at advance-lunge distance, unless you take a feint step back.

I just don't know

[Epeecurean]

Drippingwet & That Reall Hurt, you may want to go to David Littell's web page and read his excellent series of articles and practice plans.

Read in particular, 'Hungarian Methodology', 'Lessons with Victor' and 'Tactical Material':

http://users.erols.com/dlittell/

Cheers,
Epeecurean

[drippingwet]

ooh, I've already seen the other stuff you mentioned, but that Buckie stuff and the tactical material is quite interesting. Still interested in the above if anyone knows?

[keith]

Originally Posted by drippingwet

Hmm, so do you move into and out of lunging distance and attack as opponent tries to regain lunging distance? But if you're constantly moving into and out of of lunging distance, you might get attacked on prep aswell. If you retreat at advance-lunge distance, in order to get your opponent to follow, you're still gonna be at advance-lunge distance, unless you take a feint step back.

okay here is the central tactical problem; if I am in a position to hit my opponent then my opponent is almost certainly in a position to hit me. (this is the grey zone I believe being described as "fighting contact")

So as you point out the best option is to perform fient steps and other stuttering/disjointed footwork to manipulate the opponents distance. Explicitly using RoW shifts to a different tactical solution (attack/parry etc). The idea here, I think, is to put the emphasis on the control of distance - don't just think of it as a component of a more complex series of actions.