Should the Bible be banned?

[esskreemr]

I want to hear discussion about why the Bible should not be banned. Here is a book with sodomy, infanticide, incest, murder, human sacrifice, genocide, deviant sexual practices, nudity, polygamy, rape, pillage, racism, slavery, occult worship, demonic possession, pedophilia, etc. You name it the Bible has it.

If we use the same criteria that the Christian Right uses, then the Bibile should be at the very top of the banned list.

[JackSparrow]

I'm against censorship in general.

[HillBilly]

normally i agree with you, ess, but here...

Censorship of any media outlet (including the printing of books) is wrong, though it happens too much. On the other hand, he who reads the Bible then lashes out against such books as Harry Potter, or The Lord of the Rings is an absolut feckhead.

[Soldier]

I want to hear discussion about why the Bible should not be banned. Here is a book with sodomy, infanticide, incest, murder, human sacrifice, genocide, deviant sexual practices, nudity, polygamy, rape, pillage, racism, slavery, occult worship, demonic possession, pedophilia, etc. You name it the Bible has it.

If we use the same criteria that the Christian Right uses, then the Bibile should be at the very top of the banned list.

You do quite an injustice in simply listing the contents, without the context in which they are discussed. Your question should not even be considered seriously.

If the point you are trying to make is that perhaps some Christians are overzealous in trying to ban materials of immoral subject material (which is a highly subjective measure to begin with), then I completely agree with you. The manner of presenting the subject, however, is completely absurd.

[esskreemr]

You do quite an injustice in simply listing the contents, without the context in which they are discussed. Your question should not even be considered seriously.

We have discussed the context in which several of these matters are included. The context often does nothing towards solidifying the moral argument against specific behaviors. In many cases these actions are glorified with little or no consequence.

If the point you are trying to make is that perhaps some Christians are overzealous in trying to ban materials of immoral subject material (which is a highly subjective measure to begin with), then I completely agree with you.

Yes that is part of the point, but not all of it.

The manner of presenting the subject, however, is completely absurd.

Absurdity is sometimes the best tool for getting others to rethink their positions.

[darius]

Definitely.

Ban it, and then all the rebellious kids will try to read it. Maybe they'll learn something.

darius

[Soldier]

We have discussed the context in which several of these matters are included. The context often does nothing towards solidifying the moral argument against specific behaviors. In many cases these actions are glorified with little or no consequence.

We have? I must have missed it. Perhaps you could humor me by holding the discussion again (or pointing me to the old one)? Or perhaps cite specific examples from the Bible, that we may discuss them?

Yes that is part of the point, but not all of it.

Then what's the rest?

Absurdity is sometimes the best tool for getting others to rethink their positions.

Oh come now. We're rather more intelligent than that on this forum. I think it would probably be most effective to simply skip the absurdity and get to your actual point in a reasonable manner.

[scrapinpeg]

People on both sides of the political spectrum seek censorship. The thinking that some ideas or statements have a potential for harm, and thus should not be allowed to be expressed, is not unique to fundamentalist Christians. Remember, the reason why "Huckleberry Finn" has often been removed from libraries is that it offends "liberal" sensibilities (granted, of people who don't get the concept).

Book-banning, however, is not all that common. Nor, when it does occur, is it very successful. It usually just results in people who never would have read a book going out and getting it just to see what the fuss is all about.

I guess what I'm saying is that you're pointing fingers at one side when both are deserving of the same criticism, and that you're upset about a particular thing that's not much of a problem in real life anyway.

[Kismet]

Censorship is bad. I do not agree with, usually.

The Bible does have a lot of negative-type things in it. Honestly, have you ever read Song of Solomon???

[Soldier]

Definitely.

Ban it, and then all the rebellious kids will try to read it. Maybe they'll learn something.

darius

Good idea!

[Moonitic]

Definitely.

Ban it, and then all the rebellious kids will try to read it. Maybe they'll learn something.

darius

A clever way of thinking! I like that.

Okay, NO, the Bible should not be banned. Neither should Huck Finn or books by Judy Blume (half of the books the woman has published are on the "banned books" list!). Although, I used to wish Germinal would be banned, just because I hated reading it in school. It describes, in detail, a scene in which a man (who has people send their daughters & wives to "pay" for goods when they are unable to) is chased to a roof, stoned to death & his "member" is cut off...then paraded around on a stick through the town. Yeah, this was a book read in my hight school AP English class for many years, while Judy Blume's exploits into teen life were banned.

I'm against book banning (& burning, I could seriously beat people for doing that) in general. It bothers me that a select few could destroy a learning opportunity for many others. The Bible is, whether some wish to admit it or not, an excellent piece of literature. Learning the mechanics of English or creative writing? Awesome place to find examples of how to do it right. I could go on & on as to why it is a great learning tool. In my 10th grade AP English class, we actually did a study on the book of Job. No one had any complaints, despite the different religions & beliefs being present. Perish the thought...tolerance for one another & a willingness to learn!

In conclusion, I will say that the Bible doesn't go into as much detail as other books (like the one I just mentioned), & I've read quite a few. I think that's the difference. Negative behavior is dealt with. Also, let's not forget the positive stories; the stories about self sacrifice, love & helping your fellow man. There are many of those.

Also note:Someone (who had an ax to grind against me anyway) actually tried to tell me that the novel I wrote was "too violent" to be a young adult novel. However, compared to other stories already published in the genre, it was tame. Very, very tame. Just something to think about...context & comparision...

[jBirch]

Can anyone name any book that deserves to be banned for any reason?

[mrbiggs]

Can anyone name any book that deserves to be banned for any reason?

Yes. I heard an NPR show on a book that basically instructed you on how to kill someone. No one objected to it, then there was a murder, and the criminal got off. They found the book near the murder scene, and the murder was obviously done using the instructions in the book.

THAT book should be banned.

[Maeve_Mari]

Yes. I heard an NPR show on a book that basically instructed you on how to kill someone. No one objected to it, then there was a murder, and the criminal got off. They found the book near the murder scene, and the murder was obviously done using the instructions in the book.

THAT book should be banned.

What was the name of the book?
And why should it be banned. Because someone who read it murdered someone? People who have read the bible have killed people. Sometimes even Bibles are found right next to the victim in crime scenes. Are you saying that books that MAY contribute to crimes should be banned?

[Maeve_Mari]

Just for giggles I looked up some titles of previously banned books. Interesting to see how over the ages different titles have become enraged and been called for banning and removal!

1) Ulysses
by James Joyce. Dover. Published in 1918, this book was banned on sexual grounds. In 1922, 500 copies of the book were burned by the United States Department of the Post Office.


2) Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
by Mark Twain. Norton. Published in 1884, "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" has been banned on social grounds. Concord Public Library called the book "trash suitable only for the slums," when it first banned the novel in 1885.

3) Madame Bovary
by Gustave Flaubert. Oxford. Published in 1857, "Madame Bovary" was banned on sexual grounds. In the trial, Imperial Advocate Ernest Pinard said, "No gauze for him, no veils--he gives us nature in all her nudity and crudity."


4) The Scarlet Letter
by Nathaniel Hawthorne. Norton. Published in 1850, "The Scarlet Letter" was censored on social grounds. The book has been challenged under claims that it is "pornographic and obscene."


5) Uncle Tom's Cabin
by Harriet Beecher Stowe. Norton. Published in 1852, "Uncle Tom's Cabin" was controversial. When President Lincoln saw Stowe, he purportedly said, "So you’re the little woman who wrote the book that made this great war." The novel has been been banned for language concerns.


6) Of Mice and Men
by John Steinbeck. Penguin. Published in 1937, Steinbeck's "Of Mice and Men" has been frequently banned on social grounds. The book has been called "offensive" and "vulgar" because of the language and characterization.


7) Brave New World
by Aldous Huxley. HarperCollins. Published in 1932, "Brave New World" has been banned with complaints about the language used, as well morality issues. "Brave New World" is a satirical novel, with a stringent division of the classes, drugs, and free love.


8) Lady Chatterley's Lover
by D.H. Lawrence. Random House. Published in 1928, "Lady Chatterley's Lover" has been banned for its sexually explicit nature. Lawrence wrote three versions of the the novel.


9) Moll Flanders
by Daniel Defoe. Oxford. Published in 1722, "Moll Flanders" was one of the earliest novels. The book dramatically depicts the life and misadventures of a young girl, who becomes a prostitute. The book has been challenged on sexual grounds...


10) Candide
by Voltaire. Oxford. Published in 1759, "Candide" was banned by the Catholic Church. Bishop Etienne Antoine wrote: "We prohibit, under canonical law, the printing or sale of these books..."


and this list of more books that have been banned at one time or another in the United States:

A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle
Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden
As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner
Blubber by Judy Blume
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson
Canterbury Tales by Chaucer
Carrie by Stephen King
Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
Christine by Stephen King
Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Cujo by Stephen King
Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen
Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite
Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller
Decameron by Boccaccio
East of Eden by John Steinbeck
Fallen Angels by Walter Myers
Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland
Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes
Forever by Judy Blume
Grendel by John Champlin Gardner
Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling
Have to Go by Robert Munsch
Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman
How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell
Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
Impressions edited by Jack Booth
In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak
It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein
James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl
Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence
Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman
Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm
Lord of the Flies by William Golding
Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein
Lysistrata by Aristophanes
More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier
My House by Nikki Giovanni
My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara
Night Chills by Dean Koontz
Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer
One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey
One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Ordinary People by Judith Guest
Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health Collective
Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy
Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl
Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz
Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
Separate Peace by John Knowles
Silas Marner by George Eliot
Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain
The Bastard by John Jakes
The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier
The Color Purple by Alice Walker
The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth
The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs
The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson
The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood
The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder
The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks
The Living Bible by William C. Bower
The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare
The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman
The Pigman by Paul Zindel
The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders
The Shining by Stephen King
The Witches by Roald Dahl
The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder
Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume
To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee
Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare
Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff
Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween Symbols by Edna Barth

If you consider the list of books that have been banned for one reason or another - mostly out of fear that reading them would cause the reader to act somehow inappropriately - you can easily see how very unproductive the bans have been in the past.

[The Armourer]

Maeve_Mari is absolutely correct. We are all responsible for our own actions no matter what a clever Barrister may argue. I would never accept a book be banned - whatever it is - and I think banning the Bible is absolutely silly. AND, if it were banned it would hit major publishers really hard! I know for a fact that one publisher when needing funds, reprints Bibles!

[mrbiggs]

I don't remember what its name was. I'll see if I can look it up, to be honest, I heard of it a few years ago.

And why should it be banned. Because someone who read it murdered someone? People who have read the bible have killed people. Sometimes even Bibles are found right next to the victim in crime scenes. Are you saying that books that MAY contribute to crimes should be banned?

No, books that teach someone how to commit a crime, and tell them to do it, should be banned. If the Bible told people to commit murder, and told them how to do it, then it should be banned. This book isn't one that MAY contribute to a crime, this is a book that was specifically written for the purpose of commiting a crime.

In regards to your banned list, it's not completely accurate in that, for example, the Harry Potter books were banned in some areas, but never nationally.

[epeemike81]

You do quite an injustice in simply listing the contents, without the context in which they are discussed. Your question should not even be considered seriously.

If the point you are trying to make is that perhaps some Christians are overzealous in trying to ban materials of immoral subject material (which is a highly subjective measure to begin with), then I completely agree with you. The manner of presenting the subject, however, is completely absurd.

The very fact that you consider it an absurdity to propose banning the Bible reveals a critical point. The Koran has been banned by multiple municipalities in this country. Nobody would consider a proposal to ban the Koran patently absurd (though many, including quite possibly yourself, would oppose it vehemently).

The fact is that the Bible in this context, and Christian doctrine in general is considered untouchable in this country to a degree that little else is. For example, we consider much of the muslim world intolerant toward women (which they are), despite the fact that much of their restrictions on women are simply what the Koran requires. Large portions of this country, though, take offense when told that their belief that homosexual couples shouldn't have the same rights as heterosexual couples is intolerant toward homosexuals. They believe that it is not intolerance because it is borne out of the bible.

I don't find the question which started this thread absurd (except to the degree that I find banning ANY material absurd), and I agree with ess that the fact that most would consider it absurd is very telling.

-m

[Moonitic]

Also to add to the banned book list:

Are You There, God? It's Me, Margaret.

There are more Blume books, but I can't remember them off the top of my head. They're frank, & speak about normal things that happen in the life of an adolescent.

The funny thing about the "outcry" of book banning is that a lot of members of the mob (with their MOB mentality) don't actually read the books in question. They just react to what others who may or may not have read them have to say. Such is the case of Harry Potter. I'm one of the "weird" Christians that liked the books (not the best YA novels around, but very entertaining) & I've actually asked people who speak against them if they've ever read them. The answer has been "no" 99% of the time. Shame on them. "Know your enemy."

[Moonitic]

The very fact that you consider it an absurdity to propose banning the Bible reveals a critical point. The Koran has been banned by multiple municipalities in this country. Nobody would consider a proposal to ban the Koran patently absurd (though many, including quite possibly yourself, would oppose it vehemently).

The fact is that the Bible in this context, and Christian doctrine in general is considered untouchable in this country to a degree that little else is. For example, we consider much of the muslim world intolerant toward women (which they are), despite the fact that much of their restrictions on women are simply what the Koran requires. Large portions of this country, though, take offense when told that their belief that homosexual couples shouldn't have the same rights as heterosexual couples is intolerant toward homosexuals. They believe that it is not intolerance because it is borne out of the bible.

I don't find the question which started this thread absurd (except to the degree that I find banning ANY material absurd), and I agree with ess that the fact that most would consider it absurd is very telling.

-m

Absurd? I don't know. I'm actually wondering what brought this question about. Esskreemr, care to enlighten us? Did it just pop into your head as a means to incite a discussion, or did something happen to cause this line of discussion?