USFA age divisions

[Ms Epee]

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

If he's a foil"dad", of course it matters which age group means what, because it determines everything that affects his children.

Maybe you have the luxury of age bracket narcissism, but those of us with fencing kids need to have a slightly broader view, so that we understand when and where our kids need to compete.

Also, one doesn't need to be a "stage dad" to wish that our fair sport gets accurate representation in the media.

When Lefty1 said "stage dad" he/she meant that either he was a dad that fenced or a dad that just carted his kid around to tournaments. There was no implication that he/she didn't care about fencing in the media. Maybe some fencers just have "narcissism" because they have a love or passion for a sport and can figure out age brackets. By the way if you're kids are fencing how hard is it to figure out youth 10, youth 12 youth 14?

[Lefty1]

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

If he's a foil"dad", of course it matters which age group means what, because it determines everything that affects his children.

Maybe you have the luxury of age bracket narcissism, but those of us with fencing kids need to have a slightly broader view, so that we understand when and where our kids need to compete.

Also, one doesn't need to be a "stage dad" to wish that our fair sport gets accurate representation in the media.

Sorry my sister go a hold of my account. I have to say I agree with her perception somewhat. I do not understand why everyone is making such a big deal about the divisions. They aren't even going to change, no matter how much YOU want them too.

You also might want to look up the meaning of the word narcissism it hardly belongs in the sentence.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by Joan of Ark

div 1, div2, div3.. and of course.. you can't fence in all three of them... :confused:

Well, TECHNICALLY you COULD qualify to fence in all three of them. You can even qualify to fence in all three of them in the same weapon.

If you're on the NPS you qualify to division I national championships. You can get onto the NPS without fencing domestically (and therefore not have to worry about earning a rating that would then disqualify you from div II and div III). Go fence some French or German circuit event (or two), and earn at least 275 points. Okay, now you're on the list. Each year either repeat that process or fence in the D1Champs and finish in the 25-32 bracket to earn more points but stay below C level to continue the process for an additional season. Fence all the D2 and D3 events you like.

Or, for a one-time exception, start as a D or below. Qualify to D2/D3 nationals and earn a C. Enter the April D1 NAC. Earn points. Additionally qualify through your section for IA. Go to Summer Nationals and fence in all 4 senior categories in your weapon. You can continue this process with D2/DIA/D1 indefinitely and get all four for the first year.

-B :)

[Mo]

Originally Posted by Ms Epee

Maybe some fencers just have "narcissism" because they have a love or passion for a sport and can figure out age brackets. By the way if you're kids are fencing how hard is it to figure out youth 10, youth 12 youth 14?

Actually it can get pretty complicated to figure out age brackets.
If a young fencer can fence up they have to earn their way into older age brackets.
The parents of young fencers have to do their homework. In your first year of fencing did you know that a Y12 fencer can't fence in Div 2-3 unless they first have points in Junior?
There are different qualifications for different age groups. Some people will try to keep a younger kid out of an open event even if they are qualified to fence it. The parents have to know the rules. They have to go to bat for their kids.
Don't blow off fencing parents or assume that by caring they are just "pushy". Calling someone a "stage dad" has a bad connotation.
The term "Soccer mom" has the same negative feeling. So far fencing parents have not decended to that level.
No body is perfect, don't be smug because parents are being parents...

[Ms Epee]

Originally Posted by Mo

Actually it can get pretty complicated to figure out age brackets.
If a young fencer can fence up they have to earn their way into older age brackets.
The parents of young fencers have to do their homework. In your first year of fencing did you know that a Y12 fencer can't fence in Div 2-3 unless they first have points in Junior?
There are different qualifications for different age groups. Some people will try to keep a younger kid out of an open event even if they are qualified to fence it. The parents have to know the rules. They have to go to bat for their kids.
Don't blow off fencing parents or assume that by caring they are just "pushy". Calling someone a "stage dad" has a bad connotation.
The term "Soccer mom" has the same negative feeling. So far fencing parents have not decended to that level.
No body is perfect, don't be smug because parents are being parents...

Your kid's coach can probably help you the first couple of years (what events the kids can fence in.) But it is not that difficult to learn after you've been around the sport for awhile. I did not write the post about the "stage dads". I was just wondering why everyone is making such a big deal about something none of us have control over. People are spending time complaining when they could be learning the divisons.

[Fencing Mom]

“Stage Dad” “dad that just carted his kids around to tournaments”

I am so weary of these types of labels being applied to fencing parents. To you who are not parents, who are unmarried or childless adults, who started fencing later in life and never worked your way through the youth categories. . .try a little empathy. Try to understand the extraordinary commitment involved in being the parent of a competitive fencer. Forget little league, soccer, or hoops and those parents. Fencing is different.

First there are the hours and hours of driving and waiting at practice, lessons and divisional competitions. There usually are no neighborhood carpools for this. Your kid may be the only athlete in your community participating in fencing. This can be quite a parental time commitment.

Unlike participation in other sports, and unlike what some may think, it is not easy for parents to learn the ropes of fencing – the weapons, armoring, divisions, rules, and the youth system. In the US, parents know how baseball, football, basketball, and soccer work. The schools support it and other parents help you. But in fencing, you’re often on your own. Not every kid with a passion to compete is in a competitive club with understanding coaches and cooperative members. Parents have to seek out information. (That’s why Foildad posted his comment, to begin with.) There are no booster clubs – so often parents, by themselves, are making the decisions on whether a kid should compete or not, change coaches, travel alone, etc.

And for those who think the youth system is obvious – go back and read the youth circuit rules on this board or tell me why a 14-year-old can’t always fence youth-14.

And then, of course, there’s the money – the equipment, plane trips, hotel stays – all to make competitive opportunities available. Before you call one of us a stage parent, think about what would happen to fencing in the US if we suddenly withdrew our credit cards from the system.

So the next time you read what you think is a simple question or see an over-anxious parent alongside the strip, have some patience. As Capt. Slo-Mo said, we just want to do what’s best for our kids. And in fencing, that is not always easy to discover.

I for one, am looking at the top of this board at the picture of the US. gold medal winners and thanking Mr. and Mrs. Jacobson and Mr. and Mrs. Zagunis for what they’ve done to insure the future of fencing in the US. And while I’m at it, thank you Foildad, Capt. Slo-Mo, Mo, Mr. and Mrs. Getz, Mr. and Mrs. Horyiani, Mr. and Mrs. Cross . . .

[Peach]

As the mother of a fencer, I'd like to applaud that sentiment . . . but I'd also like to add that there are definitely parents to whom the monicker more than applies. That was part of what got me into fencing myself and out of being a "fencing parent"--not the many friendly, helpful, excited parents with whom I enjoyed spending time at my daughter's tournaments, but the occasional obsessed, cranky, self-important, micro-manager who made my life and my daughter's more difficult, not to mention making it hard on the bout committee, the referees, and the coaches (oh yeah, and their own kids, who needed more space).

Now, as a fencer, I still encounter people like that among my fellow fencers, but the difference is I get to hit them.

[sabreur]

Originally Posted by haroldbuck

The high school paper of the school I used to coach did a short piece on our team. I don't think I'll ever forget it: "Fencing has three weapons: fencing, eppe, and saviour."

Well, we sabreurs like to think that our blindingly brilliant footwork allows us to walk on water....

In Germany, Seniors are "Aktiven" and Veterans are "Senioren."

Now that is said, I don't give a hoot. Any moniker is basically going to be arbitrary. At least they don't call us "Knights of the Setting Sun" or something silly like that.

Besides, I fence open more than I fence vet--I guess that makes me a senior veteran or an Aktiven Senioren.

ROTFLMAO.

MR

Postscript. Although, when I think about it, I don't know why they don't just use the age groups. I don't know the ranges for cadet and junior, but they could just use the ages (U18, U16, whatever), call "senior" "open" instead, and give the ages for the vets 40-49, 50-59, 60-69....

[Saber-Psycho]

Originally Posted by Lefty1

You also might want to look up the meaning of the word narcissism it hardly belongs in the sentence.

Oh, pshaw! You opined:

Originally Posted by Lefty1

You should only be concerned about how you fence and in which group you fence.

Only concerned about you and your fencing group....gazing longingly at your "pool" of age-appropriate competitors...

Which parts of the Narcissus story did you miss in school? That was hardly much of a poetic stretch at all.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Originally Posted by Lefty1

You also might want to look up the meaning of the word narcissism it hardly belongs in the sentence.

Oh, pshaw! You opined:

Originally Posted by Lefty1

You should only be concerned about how you fence and in which group you fence.

Only concerned about you and your fencing group....gazing longingly at your "pool" of age-appropriate competitors...

Which parts of the Narcissus story did you miss in school? That was hardly much of a poetic stretch at all.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Originally Posted by Ms Epee

By the way if you're kids are fencing how hard is it to figure out youth 10, youth 12 youth 14?

By the way, not to be cantankerous about contractions, but your does not equal you're. How hard is it to figure that out?

As far as age brackets simplicity, try having to call the USFA on a Saturday during the Sectional Qualifiers because your 12 year old child with an "A" is not being allowed to fence in the Div1A qualifier. It happened to a kid in our club. Confusion is not limited just to new parents...

For the record, I don't really have a problem with the way the age divisions are named. The Junior moniker is a recognized format--Junior Olympics, Junior World Cups--in fencing and in other sports. Senior doesn't seem like all that much of a odd progression for the next age level up, and I like the Vet 40, Vet 50, etc.

[Lefty1]

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

Oh, pshaw! You opined:

Only concerned about you and your fencing group....gazing longingly at your "pool" of age-appropriate competitors...

Which parts of the Narcissus story did you miss in school? That was hardly much of a poetic stretch at all.

Okay then... No words can express.

PLEASE LOOK ON NEXT PAGE

[Lefty1]

To parents of fencers:

I'm sorry if you got the wrong idea on how I think about parents of fencers. I did not write the "stage dad" comment that started this all, my sister was on my account. I realize all the hardwork, commitment, money etc. you put forth to support fencing, and I appreciate that.

I never meant for people to get upset, I apologize to Capt. Slo Mo, Peach, Fencing Mom, and everyone else who took offense.

Forgive me!!

[Lefty1]

To parents of fencers:

I'm sorry if you got the wrong idea on how I think about parents of fencers. I did not write the "stage dad" comment that started this all, my sister was on my account. I realize all the hardwork, commitment, money etc. you put forth to support fencing, and I appreciate that.

I never meant for people to get upset, I apologize to Capt. Slo Mo, Peach, Fencing Mom, and everyone else who took offense.

Forgive me!!

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Awww....we're all just one big happy family!

Tell your sister to get her own screen name, and we'll invite her to join the fun, rather than have you unfairly chastised for her transgressions.

[Peach]

Originally Posted by Lefty1

I never meant for people to get upset, I apologize to Capt. Slo Mo, Peach, Fencing Mom, and everyone else who took offense.

I don't think I took offense (looking behind self), did I?

[Fencing Mom]

I also did not take offense. Sometimes, I just can't stop myself from climbing upon a soapbox.

[Lefty1]

Oh I just wanted to make sure you didn't take offense, but if you didn't thats okay too! Fencers are the nicest people!

[Orangeaholic]

Lets all just hug, be friends, and dance on colorful rainbows... Bake a cake of smiles and all be happy! Just kidding can i join this happy family?

[OneBadFencer]

All I know is that it is better than in ski racing. I retired from ski racing five years ago at the age of 29. In skiing, anyone over 20's is a Master!!! Hell, I barely considered myself an ADULT, much less a master.

Unfortunately in ski racing there is juniors, the US Ski Team and masters.

There is no seniors racing and, in fact, very little in the way of competitive ski racing in the 20's age group of masters (which is how I won the overall title..god knows it wasn't my great technique).

Point is, I don't care much what you call it...I'm just glad that there is competitive fencing available to those of us who won't ever get an A rating or fence at the world level.

All the freaky people make the beauty of the world!!! Peace out!