How flexible are you?

[Grasshopper]

How much stretching do you do before and after fencing? How important do you think flexibility is to fencing and why?

[mrbiggs]

I'm not flexible in the least. The President gives me an F for flexibility every year. That's probably why I don't support him.

Flexibility is somewhat important to fencing. In foil, I wouldn't put it too high, because a long lunge that requires flexibility is hard to recover from, and therefore ends up being a disadvantage. In epee and sabre, however, it's different. In sabre, a little bit of extra reach on a flunge can make all the difference. And in epee, having a little reserve to lenthen your lunge can get you a point, due to the lack of RoW.

Right?

[Army Fencer]

The Army did an interesting study on flexibility and injuries. They basically concluded that, like being too inflexible, being too flexible makes you injury prone.

That said, I think that some degree is important when in-fighting, and possibly in lunging. Otherwise, it doesn't do much for you.

[Zelda]

Ok I am serverly hyper mobile in many of my joints. Its a pain in the proverbial. Sure, I may be able to put my legs into all sorts of interesting stretches, and literally turn my thumbs back to front, as well as kneel in a splits position, but I am forever tripping over things, falling over my own feet and generally over stretching. Its advantagous when lunging, but the recovery is a bugger. So I dont stretch at all, I know I should, but more give in joints that already play loosey goosey on a regular basis?? No thanks!

[Army Fencer]

Are you tall for your family, Zelda?

[Grasshopper]

Originally Posted by Army Fencer

The Army did an interesting study on flexibility and injuries. They basically concluded that, like being too inflexible, being too flexible makes you injury prone.

That said, I think that some degree is important when in-fighting, and possibly in lunging. Otherwise, it doesn't do much for you.

I wonder about benefits of contracting muscles (plyometrics??) while in the enlongated position as a way to build leg strength. Did the Army ever look at that?

[mrbiggs]

Actually, I take my previous post back, in part. I have very flexible shoulders (I can grab my wrists behind my back, one arm up, one down....hard to exmplain...). Anywho, that helps me alot when I prime.

[Army Fencer]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

I wonder about benefits of contracting muscles (plyometrics??) while in the enlongated position as a way to build leg strength. Did the Army ever look at that?

I'm not exactly sure why you are asking this, or what relevance it has to the thread. If I had more time, I'd try to find the flexibility study for you. I think it was published in the 70's, though, so it may be a bit difficult for me to get a hold of.

Regarding your question, I'm not a doctor yet, so my scope of knowledge is still somewhat (read "very") limited. I don't know if the military has looked at that issue, though I'm sure they have. If you are interested in the question, you can probably find abstracts of recent publications on pubmed.

[ThatReallyHurt]

I'm a lot more flexible now than I was five months ago. I couldn't touch my toes, and I couldn't even sit in a relaxed butterfly stretch without a great deal of discomfort.

I can now touch the floor (with fingertips, not palms), and I can almost set my legs against the floor when doing a butterfly stretch.

I do about an hour of work in the mornings - 15 minute warmup/run, then 15 minutes of stretching, then 30 minutes fencing (footwork, wall exercises, point work). It's made quite a difference in how resistant I am to some injuries - I've taken a few nasty spills this winter and come out of it pretty easy, while last year I'd be hurt for a week.

[Grasshopper]

Originally Posted by Army Fencer

I'm not exactly sure why you are asking this, or what relevance it has to the thread. If I had more time, I'd try to find the flexibility study for you. I think it was published in the 70's, though, so it may be a bit difficult for me to get a hold of.

Regarding your question, I'm not a doctor yet, so my scope of knowledge is still somewhat (read "very") limited. I don't know if the military has looked at that issue, though I'm sure they have. If you are interested in the question, you can probably find abstracts of recent publications on pubmed.

Well, I heard that alot of the eastern bloc countries used these kind of resistance stretching programs in the 80's for their athletes. (Image: guy doing splits holding himself up with feet on two chairs.) Since we fencers often do strength training in the non-elongated form, I was wondering if anyone has experience with the above kind of training.

[Zelda]

Originally Posted by Army Fencer

Are you tall for your family, Zelda?

nope I am about 5 foot 5. My parents are slightly taller than me. Neither are particularly hyper mobile, but my grandfather (before he got rhumatics) could do the same sorts of tricks that I can do with my thumbs. The hyper mobile hips come from double jointedness.

[fencerontheline]

Originally Posted by Zelda

Sure, I may be able to put my legs into all sorts of interesting stretches, and literally turn my thumbs back to front, as well as kneel in a splits position

betcha latenight is gonna like to read this...

[ReverseLunge]

This is not a joke.

I am actually able to kiss my own a$$.

[Alain]

I'd say I'm pretty flexible, more than most anyway. When fully warmed up, I can do "le grand écart" (the splits), with good flexibility in my other joints too - back, shoulders, wrists, etc. This comes from fencing, obviously, and also from Tae Kwon-Do, which is really big on flexibility. Whenever I go to the gym, I always spend 20 minutes stretching before, and anything up to 30 minutes stretching after.

[sabreur]

I do about 10-15 minutes of stretching before and after fencing. I think being flexible helps prevent at least some injuries--for instance, the more flexible you are in the groin and inner thighs, the less likely you are to do serious damage if your front foot slips out during a lunge and you inadvertantly do the splits.

MR

[rory]

I do 5-10 minutes of dynamic stretching (joint rotations etc) after my warmup and before fencing/working out. Then static stretching for longer after the session, before a cool down.

A long lunge is very helpful in foil: but you do need to be flexible and strong enough to recover from any lunge you do.

See Hungarian womens' foilists (G. Varga particularly) for proof

[drippingwet]

According to Wojciechowski's (Kruse's coach) book, "the last 30 per cent of movement by stretched muscles is faster than those that are unstretched. It is also easier to execute the last phase of any movement which requires the complete range, if the muscles have been stretched previously. Movement is then longer, more controlled and relaxed and the antagonistic muscles are not 'interfering' with the motion. In fencing, it is very noticeable that control and accuracy of the point increases at the end of the extension of the arm if the muscles concerned are stretched. Similarly, the lunge and flèche are longer and more controlled if the appropriate antagonistic muscles are not interacting at the end of these attacks."

Wojciechowski's book is great (Theory Methods and Exercises in Fencing). There's stuff on lots of different aspects of fencing.

[Zilverzmurfen]

I'm about as flexible as a fridge... (Swedish saying.)

I'm really bad at stretching, I definitely should do more of that... Hence why I'm not very flexible either. At the moment.

[Asphalt]

My general flexibility is pretty good...
unfortunately my hamstrings and abductors are like blocks of wood...

[esskreemr]

I'm pretty flexible in certain areas. I can bend over and place my fist knuckles on the floor. I can lift my leg and place it on something at eye level (I use this as a stretch). That's pretty flexible for a male.

One note: static and ballistic stretching should be avoided before fully warming up. Look up the research, flexibility gains are best made after a full workout.

That being said, light active stretching is a must part of any warm-up.