That's it then. We all agree now.

[Maeve_Mari]

Nah, Accountability, Saccountability. Not me. Not here. Not Never.

President Bush said the public's decision to reelect him was a ratification of his approach toward Iraq and that there was no reason to hold any administration officials accountable for mistakes or misjudgments in prewar planning or managing the violent aftermath.

"We had an accountability moment, and that's called the 2004 elections," Bush said in an interview with The Washington Post. "The American people listened to different assessments made about what was taking place in Iraq, and they looked at the two candidates, and chose me."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6831621/

"Why ain't all legislating this easy?"

[esskreemr]

Yes, he conveniently overlooked that fact that nearly half of America didn't agree with his policies...


Speaking of accountability, the Repubs continue their backsliding. Gotta love the Repubs, cocky bunch, they'll cut their on throats with their hubris. Hopefully, that will be the last election that abortion gives them.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa...n_to_bias_law/

[noodle]

living in the south, i know a lot of repubs.

i know a lot of people who voted for bush because of religion, his alleged fiscal policies (cough), his attitude on terrorism, and simply because he was republican, many of whom did NOT agree with the war on iraq.

the war was a big deal for a lot, but not big enough to swing votes around. to make such a statement shows he truly misunderestimates the complexitories of some american voters.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by esskreemr

Yes, he conveniently overlooked that fact that nearly half of America didn't agree with his policies...

Luckily it was the half that doesn't matter.

Gotta love the Repubs, cocky bunch, they'll cut their on throats with their hubris. Hopefully, that will be the last election that abortion gives them.

What's that tune you're whistling past the grave?

[lochinvar]

Originally Posted by esskreemr

Hopefully, that will be the last election that abortion gives them.

That is a naive hope. As long as the Republicans can continue to pose as the champions of religion and "family values" without actually solving any of the problems that they are elected to address, they will continue to hold the support of the poor but conservative elements in the electorate.

The day of reckoning will only come if and when the "moral values" issues are solved to the conservative's satisfaction. Only then will they wake up to realize that the Republicans, while stirring the abortion and gun-control pot, have outsourced all their jobs overseas or south of the border.

[jeff]

I've recently read some comments by Democrats saying that they should let the Republicans hang themselves on the abortion issue by dropping the issue of dilation and extraction (what's called "partial birth"). That would place the Republicans in the situation of either having to introduce legislation to get rid of abortion altogether - even though every national poll says there is a strong majority favoring (constrained) abortion rights - or piss off their conservative constituency to whom they promised getting rid of all of it. Either way it would her the Republicans.

[Soldier]

That operates on the presumtion that if the Democrats drop the issue, the Republicans will be forced to drop it as well.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by lochinvar

The day of reckoning will only come if and when the "moral values" issues are solved to the conservative's satisfaction. Only then will they wake up to realize that the Republicans, while stirring the abortion and gun-control pot, have outsourced all their jobs overseas or south of the border.

Or when a competing party, Democratic or otherwise, succeeds in wresting at least a portion of those "values" positions away from them. It can be done; there are avenues available, if the leadership can bring themselves to stop butting their heads against the wall and go over or around it instead. And it's not enough, I think, loch, to try to shift the focus from one issue to another, as from abortion and gun control to jobs. There must also be a concerted effort to co-opt the so-called values issues, to address them in a different way, but one still appealing to the majority of the citizenry which now characterizes itself as "conservative". It can't be "X isn't important, X is a smokescreen, it's all about Y, we'll solve Y, so vote for us". It has to be "We'll solve X like this, and Y like this". Even if they think X is really a smokescreen, they must still address it for those who aren't buying that logic...

[jeff]

Originally Posted by Soldier

That operates on the presumtion that if the Democrats drop the issue, the Republicans will be forced to drop it as well.

No, it's the other way around: it operates on the presumption that the Republicans would then have to act on their promise to end abortion, which would alienate the large majority of the population that supports it, or refuse to act on it even though they have the opportunity, which would infuriate the anti-abortion side that is so important to their core constituency. Either way they would lose ground they currently own.

[lochinvar]

Originally Posted by jeff

No, it's the other way around: it operates on the presumption that the Republicans would then have to act on their promise to end abortion, which would alienate the large majority of the population that supports it, or refuse to act on it even though they have the opportunity, which would infuriate the anti-abortion side that is so important to their core constituency. Either way they would lose ground they currently own.

That's the real beauty of the scheme--they can pose as champions of the cause without ever actually doing anything about it. Because the majority opposes their position, they can always blame their inaction on the fact that they are waiting for an opportune moment when they have some assurance that their proposals will succeed.

Since that isn't likely to happen anytime soon, they can continue to reap the political benefits today while postponing any possible action into the nebulous future.

Kinda like posing as a debtor's friend by saying, "That's okay--you can just pay the interest on that loan." Twenty years from now, the poor sucker still owes as much as he did on the day the loan was made, while the creditor has pocketed thousands in interest.

[Soldier]

Originally Posted by jeff

No, it's the other way around: it operates on the presumption that the Republicans would then have to act on their promise to end abortion, which would alienate the large majority of the population that supports it, or refuse to act on it even though they have the opportunity, which would infuriate the anti-abortion side that is so important to their core constituency. Either way they would lose ground they currently own.

Guess I haven't heard that promise yet.

[Maeve_Mari]

Originally Posted by Soldier

Guess I haven't heard that promise yet.

Ban abortion with Constitutional amendment

We say the unborn child has a fundamental right to life. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation that the 14th Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children. Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that right against those who perform abortions. We oppose using public revenues for abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges who respect the sanctity of innocent human life.
Source: Republican Platform adopted at GOP National Convention Aug 12, 2000

[jeff]

Maeve_Mari: thanks! Soldier: you really handn't heard of this part of the Republican platform ? (not to mention the President's identical position) It makes me think you haven't been paying attention - this hasn't been hidden under a bushel.

[Soldier]

You're right; I simply haven't been paying much attention to the debate issue at all.

[Maeve_Mari]

Other than protecting conservative americans from the threat of terrorists on American soil, this promise to enact a constititional admendment to ban abortion is really pretty much the key to the republican platform.

It's kinda what republicans vote for when they vote republican!

[Soldier]

Good thing I'm not a Republican, then, and I wasn't voting for him because he's Republican!

[Inquartata]

Perhaps when a liberal tries to tell us what the Republicans are "really" all about, what and why and how they think and act as they do, one ought to keep a filled shaker of salt handy...

[jeff]

Especially when they resort to sneaky tricks like quoting the Republican's platform.

[gojujay]

Originally Posted by lochinvar

That's the real beauty of the scheme--they can pose as champions of the cause without ever actually doing anything about it. Because the majority opposes their position, they can always blame their inaction on the fact that they are waiting for an opportune moment when they have some assurance that their proposals will succeed.

Since that isn't likely to happen anytime soon, they can continue to reap the political benefits today while postponing any possible action into the nebulous future.

Kinda like posing as a debtor's friend by saying, "That's okay--you can just pay the interest on that loan." Twenty years from now, the poor sucker still owes as much as he did on the day the loan was made, while the creditor has pocketed thousands in interest.

(pull pin, throw...) Similar to what the Demoncrats have been doing for years on Civil Rights...

[jBirch]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Perhaps when a liberal tries to tell us what the Republicans are "really" all about, what and why and how they think and act as they do, one ought to keep a filled shaker of salt handy...

...to keep the Devil away?