Prison without trial

[Tazz]

Ok, I'm a bit delayed, I only read this now:

Sun Jan 2, 2005 12:41 AM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration is preparing plans for possible lifetime detention of suspected terrorists, including hundreds whom the government does not have enough evidence to charge in courts, The Washington Post reported Sunday.

Citing intelligence, defense and diplomatic officials, the newspaper said the Pentagon and the CIA had asked the White House to decide on a more permanent approach for those it would not set free or turn over to courts at home or abroad.

As part of a solution, the Defense Department, which holds 500 prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, plans to ask the U.S. Congress for $25 million to build a 200-bed prison to hold detainees who are unlikely to ever go through a military tribunal for lack of evidence, defense officials told the newspaper.

I'm speechless. This is sick. WITHOUT TRIAL! And for LIFE! OMG.
I'm....speechless.

[esskreemr]

Quite a few of us are. Quite a few others aren't.

[Soldier]

(You, apparently are one of the latter. Or maybe you are speechless, but have simply retained use of your fingers.)

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by Soldier

(You, apparently are one of the latter. Or maybe you are speechless, but have simply retained use of your fingers.)

I have the same problem with the ridiculous e-abbreviation "rofl"

[esskreemr]

Originally Posted by Soldier

(You, apparently are one of the latter. Or maybe you are speechless, but have simply retained use of your fingers.)

It's a way of expressing shock or awe over an event that transpired. It represents the person's hypothetical inability to form words that adequately describe the intense emotions that are threatening to overwhelm them.

Hope this helps

[Tazz]

Originally Posted by esskreemr

It's a way of expressing shock or awe over an event that transpired. It represents the person's hypothetical inability to form words that adequately describe the intense emotions that are threatening to overwhelm them.

Wow... my head's spinnning

[Soldier]

Originally Posted by esskreemr

It's a way of expressing shock or awe over an event that transpired. It represents the person's hypothetical inability to form words that adequately describe the intense emotions that are threatening to overwhelm them.

Hope this helps

Actually, it's literally happened to me on a few occasions.

But, I don't really see room for disagreement on this subject. But just saying "I agree" is boring. So I decided to throw in a dumb comment instead.

[esskreemr]

Originally Posted by Tazz

Wow... my head's spinnning

There, there, Tazzie...
 */ pats Tazz on head

[Maeve_Mari]

Originally Posted by Soldier

Actually, it's literally happened to me on a few occasions.

But, I don't really see room for disagreement on this subject. But just saying "I agree" is boring. So I decided to throw in a dumb comment instead.

I'm thinking Soldier here is planning on defecting before his commission. Heaven help him otherwise if his chosen profession lands him on the wrong side of enemy lines!

[Soldier]

...what the hell are you talking about?

[Maeve_Mari]

Originally Posted by Soldier

...what the hell are you talking about?

What you talking about, Willis?

Me. I'm just saying that you'll be poopin your pants the day you get taken hostage and begging to you mighty lord that your captors are fair, reasonable, and humane people.

[Soldier]

I'm not sure if that was just supposed to be an insult, but that's the whole reason we have training before we ever get sent overseas - so we've already been in similar situations. I'm sure I'll be scared if I get captured, but I imagine I'll handle myself with a bit more dignity than that.

[Westley]

Ever went under Sensory deprivation?

[Soldier]

Not yet, though I will. What is your point?

[Maeve_Mari]

Originally Posted by Soldier

I'm not sure if that was just supposed to be an insult, but that's the whole reason we have training before we ever get sent overseas - so we've already been in similar situations. I'm sure I'll be scared if I get captured, but I imagine I'll handle myself with a bit more dignity than that.

No, it's not supposed to be an insult. I'm hoping it's just youth and immaturity and not just a uncaring soul and a callous indifference to the suffering of others.

[Soldier]

Okay, so a thinly-veiled insult.

I am not callous or indifferent to the suffering of others. If you fail to believe me, ask Zelda about it sometime.

I am, however, practical. In war, there is little room for compassion; pragmatism is much more important. In war, information must be gained - information which the enemy possesses. While I do not advocate torture, I see absolutely nothing wrong with many forms of psychological games, use of extreme discomfort (not extreme pain, extreme discomfort), intimidation, and other methods of coercion, to gain this information. If I were to see photographs of fellow American soldiers being treated in ways that I have said are alright, I would actually be quite relieved to know that that was the worst they were getting.

I will be in many of these situations myself, in approximately three years. I will be put in that situation by friendly forces. If many of these things can be done to me, then tell me why these things are too horrid for our enemies.

[Philistine]

Originally Posted by Soldier

{snip}
I will be in many of these situations myself, in approximately three years. I will be put in that situation by friendly forces. If many of these things can be done to me, then tell me why these things are too horrid for our enemies.

Because ultimately, when friendly forces are doing it to you, you know and they know they are not going to do permanent harm to you. And you know it's going to stop--and exactly how long it can possibly last.

Your argument would seem to suggest that someone who was raped shouldn't complain, because, hey other people have consensual rough sex all the time, so what's the big deal....

--Philistine

[jeff]

Originally Posted by Soldier

If many of these things can be done to me, then tell me why these things are too horrid for our enemies.

Because innoculating you (which you accept voluntarily) against evil others may do is not a license for us to commit evil against others. That's why.

[Gav]

Soldier: Because it makes you as bad as them? What right do you [or the country you represent on the battlefield] have to claim that your way is better; if you do the same or worse on your enemy? That's hypocrisy young man.

Do you study ethics at all?

[jeff]

"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

Great quote, great idea. And, just what does it mean in the context of torture and prison without trial? I don't think it means "make excuses".