Weight/Strength training as a fencer

[One and Only...]

I'm looking to get into a weight/strength training routine heavily over the summer, although I'm doing some exercises at home now... my questions are:

1) What areas of the body should I work out the most?
2) What exercises are most effective for building up those areas?
3) How can I effectively build muscle without limiting flexibility or speed, especially in the arms (I'm keeping fencing in mind, but this isn't entirely for fencing)?
4) As a result of fencing, my right arm has gotten significantly stronger than my left. How can I even out muscle development?

Any help would appreciated, and if you know anything else about the subject (diet, etc.), feel free to tell me.

[Inquartata]

First of all: which weapon? Do you need to do the cuts and explosive attacks of sabre? The flicks and infighting of foil? The bouncing and holding a heavy weapon at arms length for long periods of epee?

[cowpaste]

Why does it matter what weapon he fences?

I'll answer 3 and 4.

3. Strength training will not harm your flexibility. Not stretching will harm your flexibility. If you strength train and stretch properly, you'll probably increase your flexibility.

4. Lifting weights is a good way to balance out those muscles. There is this one exercise in particular that I really enjoy. It requires only one hand, and I'll often times use my non-fencing hand to help with muscle imbalance.

[Schiavona]

Originally Posted by cowpaste

There is this one exercise in particular that I really enjoy. It requires only one hand, and I'll often times use my non-fencing hand to help with muscle imbalance.

How many times do I have to tell you?

NOT IN THE GYM!

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by cowpaste

Why does it matter what weapon he fences?

Did you read the post at all?

Oh, the impatience of youth...girlfriendless youth....

[One and Only...]

I've been doing foil for around 2 years, but I think I'm going to convert to epee... it just feels more natural, and I've picked up quickly with it. As for saber, I doubt I'll get into it at all.

It's good to know that strength training won't hamper flexibility with proper stretching. I've also heard that strength training can actually increase speed rather than harm it, so I'm keeping that in mind.

Thanks for the advice so far (one-handed exercise, eh? ).

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Your biggest benefit with strength training would be to strengthen the muscles so that they resist injury, IE sprains. I would suggest working the biceps, forearms, pecs, neck and shoulders, abs, calves, quads, delts, adductors, ***.... pretty much everything. The excercises I reccomend are squats, presses, calf raises, lateral raises and concentration curls. If I had started conditioning myself earlier on, I'd be alot better.

[cowpaste]

Don't worry, I do my one-handed exercises at home.

Inq, you just watch. Imma get a girlie soon, and then I will return to my How to get girlfriend thread. I will bring it back to its former glory!

[Alain]

Here're my answers...

1) All of it. Mainly legs, although it is important to have good all-round strength and fitness.
2) Apart from fencing... Running/cycling/swimming is good for improving your aerobic fitness. As for strength, it's probably best to do some gymwork - legs are obviously important, but you also need to think about your abs and back muscles, arms and shoulders... everything, really
3) Good point; flexibility is really important. Strength training won't have a negative effect on your flexibility, and in fact the two go hand in hand: warm-up & stretch, work out, cool-down & stretch (again). Apart from gains in flexibility, stretching after exercise will also aid your recovery (and make you feel less dead the morning after).
4) Go to the gym, work on your muscles that are under-worked from fencing. Make sure you do stretches on both sides, too.
Other) There're a few similar threads in this section that all have good advice in, so have a search around. As for diet and stuff: just be sensible. A good balanced diet is all you need. Train hard, eat well, and remember to get some rest too

Hope this helps

[pammie003]

I would say that the most important thing to focus on is core strength. It helps in so many ways - can improve your balance and stability, help you to remain in a low enguarde longer, and helps with supporting and stablizing all other movements you make while fencing.

That said, I also work on correcting the power imbalance that so much fencing creates between my left and right sides. I find that this is starting to be corrected just by using the same weight for both sides, and concentrating on working both sides individually (rather than together where the weaker is compensated for by the srtonger).

Also, I would suggest thinking more in terms of "toning" than "building up". I'm a big fan of more reps with a slightly lighter weight (and super-sets for endurance). I find when I get too bulky, I get slow.

Best of luck.
- Pam

[VELISARIOS]

I think that you must work most in footwork, the best you can do for footwork is running. That is the best.
Now if you want to build the musles of our arms you can do weights, but with light weights. You must be carefull on this.

[Pauli]

I think weight training can very well limit flexibility if you don't do it properly. People who concentrate on special muscle parts only and forget the importance of the functional training as well as always also training the counterpart of the trained muscle risk loosing flexibility and speed. Stretching only won't do, if you ask me. But stretching is extremely important.
All parts of the body are important to keep in shape. I dare say, in particular though the 3 delta muscles, biceps, triceps. Strengthening your wrists surely helps too.
The legs have previously been mentioned, I started skipping rope, it's excellent for the footwork and a very good warm up tool as well.
A site I like - not for the pics, nor their excessive use of ugly sport bars and drink publicity - but for the exercises they show, is the muscle and fitness site. They show good descriptions of the muscle and how to do the exercise properly. Of course, one should never forget what the training goal is.
Another important subject is nutrition. It is a mainfactor for a proper metabolism.

This is my humble opinion......

[cowpaste]

*sigh* Lifting weights will not slow you down. Lifting weights will not make you less flexible.

You'll only slow down if you don't practice with your new muscles...duh. You would slow down if you didn't practice with your old muscles.

You'll only become less flexible if you don't stretch with your new muscles...duh. You would slow down if you didn't stretch with your old muscles.

Lifting weights takes time. People often replace stretching time with weight lifting time and then blame the weights on their flexibility loss.

[Pauli]

*sigh*
there maybe a language barrier.
it all depends on how you lift weights, that's basically what I was trying to say. If you pump your muscles in an isolated way, disregard the agonist / antagonist point of view, if you don't keep in mind that it's important to keep in mind the functionality of your body, and if indeed you don't stretch, flexibility maybe limited.
Ask once one of those pumped up guys to bring his underarms together in front of his body and raise it up to a 90° angle of his chest. He won't be able to do so.

But it's with all things the same - overdosis hurts.
Except probably an overdosis of fencing, ey?

[One and Only...]

Maybe your thinking of bodybuilding? That focuses almost entirely on building up muscle for aesthetic reasons... I would imagine most don't put much effort in stretching at all, spending most of their time on bulking up (which can be a stenuous task, with muscle loss during sleep, etc.).

Doing some research of my own, most of what I've found has said that strength training with weights won't limit flexibility with a proper stretching routine, and if you workout the entire range of motion. Then again, I can't tell you how truly credible what I've read is. But nothing that I've found has said so far that you will lose flexibility even with a stretching routine incorporated...

[ReverseLunge]

Everything depends on core strength. Balance, speed, stamina etc. If you ever see a fencer who can't advanceor retreat fast enough it is because he has no core strength. Good footwork doesn't exist without core strength.

http://www.allspiritfitness.com/libr.../qa_core.shtml

[Pauli]

Originally Posted by One and Only...

Maybe your thinking of bodybuilding? That focuses almost entirely on building up muscle for aesthetic reasons... I would imagine most don't put much effort in stretching at all, spending most of their time on bulking up (which can be a stenuous task, with muscle loss during sleep, etc.).

Doing some research of my own, most of what I've found has said that strength training with weights won't limit flexibility with a proper stretching routine, and if you workout the entire range of motion. Then again, I can't tell you how truly credible what I've read is. But nothing that I've found has said so far that you will lose flexibility even with a stretching routine incorporated...

....no, really, I wasn't focussing on body building. that's a different chapter. I am talking about the training "regular" people do in fitness centers.
But maybe there's a difference between how Europeans and Americans train.

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by Pauli

....no, really, I wasn't focussing on body building. that's a different chapter. I am talking about the training "regular" people do in fitness centers.
But maybe there's a difference between how Europeans and Americans train.

Weight training now a days encompasses a whole lot more than many people realize.

One can use weights to train for:

Performance:
-Speed
-Explosive power
-Endurance
Muscle Definition
Strength
Size
-Weight Loss
-Fat Loss
Injury Prevention

And many, many other uses.

Traditionally, we all hear weight training and we think of some Arnold Schwarzenegger type person getting bigger and stronger.

Now a days, most athletes weight train for performance and injury prevention. NBA players, runners, boxers (think lightweights), and even archers. No, none of these athletes are built like Mr. Universe, but that's not the goal of their weight training. They train for performance and injury prevention.

[Pauli]

I totally agree.

I think that "going to the gym" has called for masses of which 80% doesn't know how the body functions and what happens within your body when you train. Although it's obvious that trainers in fitness centers don't have the time to go through all details, it would be could if sometimes they explained a little more about the whole picture and what can be done with a good training.....

[Coup de Grace]

Does anyone have a particular recommendation to strengthen the tendons/eblow muscle of the sword arm? When I switched to Sabre several months ago (with glee...what a rush!), my soon to be 42 year old elbow has complained a bit. I ice it, rest it and take anti-inflammatories (Mobic), which work. But, I'm not certain if I am building the muscle around the joint.

Any suggestions?

Much Thanks.