While in between refereeing at the JOs, I approached various people, referees, fencers, parents of fencers, and coaches and popped the hypothetical:
"If we hold a Summer Nationals in Hawaii, would you go?"
A vast majority (something around 7-to-1) were in favor of it. Many asked if they can send in their entry forms now. Virtually all the fencers (juniors and cadets, of course) were in favor of it, although they're obviously not paying for the airfare. Many referees, especially the east european emigres were decidedly in favor of it.
The only hesitation came from those who were concerned about the airfare, hotel room prices, and the logistics of sending equipment over.
Suppose we can get some group deal on the airfare, suppose the hotel room nights are reasonable (say, $80-90/night), and suppose the issue of sending equipment over (which is never part of a fencers' concern anyway, though the USFA would like to resolve such an issue) is resolved. I now ask the question again here, and perhaps Craig can set up a poll page or something: if the summer nationals were held in Hawaii, would you go?
Let me ask several questions:
1) If the Summer Nationals were held in Hawaii, would you go?
2) If you went, would you and the whole family go as a vacation, or would you go just for the competition and then go home?
3) Would you stay a day or two longer than necessary?
You'd have to get a killer deal on the airfare, just running sample dates through travelocity just now the difference between Honolulu and Sacramento is something like $600 (from Boston).... Granted as the time gets closer both of these fares are likely to drop so the spread might be smaller, but that's still a bunch extra....
Would I stay extra time? Probably not.
Would I bring family? No.
Would I be happy and relax a bit on the days between my events? Probably, depends on which of my teammates were there and fencing those days.
Besides, what's venue space go for in Hawaii? Isn't that one of the biggest determining factors on where we can hold these things?
-B
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"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
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"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
Yes I would definately go to Nationals in Hawaii. I probobly would not take my family, considering that there are 10 of us, but if the rest of my team stayed, i would stay for a couple of days extra. That would be alot of fun and i hope you can pul it off.
1) If the Summer Nationals were held in Hawaii, would you go?
Probably.
2) If you went, would you and the whole family go as a vacation, or would you go just for the competition and then go home?
Just go for the competition.
3) Would you stay a day or two longer than necessary?
Yes, but then again, I usually do.
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Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
To not recognize the power of the French grip is to be in denial
1) If the Summer Nationals were held in Hawaii, would you go?
I would have a hard time justifying it unless there was a seriously good deal involved. And I've gone to all of them so far even though none of them have been close to the Northeast where I live. Hawaii is expensive and the airfare is a killer, and it's a looong flight. I hate those. My events are also usually too spread out to make it a cheap trip - IA, Vets, and I somehow never happen together.
Quote:
If you went, would you and the whole family go as a vacation, or would you go just for the competition and then go home?
If I went, I would go on my own & referee so I could afford some of it.
Quote:
3) Would you stay a day or two longer than necessary?
I would already be staying longer than necessary, based on my experience with the schedules so far.
The whole idea makes me grouchy. I already travel more than my family thinks reasonable and spend more money than I think reasonable on the trip. It's a great vacation place but it would be hard for me. Sigh.
__________________ I'm not anonymous. We just haven't been properly introduced.
1) duh, of coures i would go, what kind of question is that?!?
2)family(hahaha) no me and my team of friends no family!
3)WHAT THE HELL KIND OF QUESTION IS THAT OF COURSE I WOULD STAY FOR 2-4 MORE DAYS!!!
ok those are my answers l8r
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Chris
Fence with the best die like the rest!
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Fence with the best die like the rest!
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Lumberg.
"...ahhh, we have sort of a problem here... yeah, you apparently didn't put one of the new cover sheets on your TPS report"
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Lumberg.
"Drugs are bad, m'kay."
Think of it, Eric. How many fencers do we have from Hawaii at PCCs? Two, three at most? Given, PCCs is only a sectinal and not Summer Nats, but the cost...
If I had your skill, I'd consider it. but, as a lowly "E", I'd be most reluctant to spend all that cash to get knocked out in the first round. I'd rather get knocked out in the first round in Sacrmento or even Texas. At least then I wouldn't need to take a 2nd mortgage on my house to get there.
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Sam Signorelli -- I'll be mellow when I'm
DEAD!
Sam (purp fencer), how do you justify claiming that you have to take out a second mortgage to get there? Airfare to Hawai'i is not that expensive, especially from LA, where you're based (hope you don't mind me telling the world that).
This season's PCS circuit events have included Long Beach, Las Vegas, two in San Francisco, and Hawai'i this past weekend. While the airfare for me to Hawai'i is the most of all the others (I don't have to fly to the SF events), it was certainly worthwhile and not at all unreasonable.
Your logic in your first paragraph about how many Hawai'i fencers attend PCCs is irrelevant. They, first off, don't have that many fencers. And second, every year for PCCs, they have traveled to the mainland. Can't you accomodate them just once?
BTW, my weekend in Oahu was a blast. I arrived on Thursday evening, dropped off my stuff at the hotel, walked around Waikiki (it's one of very few cities in the country where one can casually walk around in), had a great meal.
On Friday, I went by the Hawai'i Convention Center just to follow up on the idea. They have a huge 120,000 sqft exhibit hall plus another 80,000 sqft exhibit hall. Upstairs, they have a 36,000 sf carpeted ballroom with 25' ceiling. And upstairs from that, they have many meeting rooms, all of which are carpeted and have high ceilings.
It is not unreasonable to get group hotel rates near $75/85 at good hotels there during July. Suppose we can arrange charter flights from major cities (LA, SF, Chicago, NY, DC, Atlanta, etc.) for, say, $450/person. Would that be convenient enough for people?
Oh, parking at the Aloha Tower Marketplace, where we had the competition was $2.00/day.
Fifteen fencers from Japan (Tokyo?) showed up to compete, 13 were women and 2 were men. Two coaches also came. It was a great time fencing. The japanese women sabre fencers were quite good, as were some of their foil fencers. Didn't have much opportunity to observe their epee fencers.
Not to rain on the parade... yeah, a $450 RT flight would make it likely that I'd go despite the fact that I don't live near any of the cities listed (I could pay an additional $100-120 for the Boston<->NYC portions and have it still be in a doable range) but the problem with that is you'd need to be making WAY too many chartered flights, this only works if the flights are on the days I need them for my comps.
Here's a few follow-up questions that relate more to general running of NACs/Nat'ls and only peripherially to one in Hawaii...
1) How much space is required for a NAC or Nat'ls? Is it different for Open vs. Div II/III vs. Nat'ls?
2) What's the price range (for venue space) the USFA looks for?
Anyone have even a ballpark figure for either of these two questions?
-B
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"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
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"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
You may request a bid packet from the USFA. In it, it details the sizes of the venue necessary for various tournaments.
Summer Nationals require 40 strips minimum, and approx. 100K sqft. The rule of thumb is 2000 sqft/strip, minimum. I was told at the Austin SNC that they had 120K, and I think that's about the size of things for the next few years. The bid packet explains the venue requirements in much more detail than I can (or want to) provide here.
As to costs, obviously the lower the better. I also can't speak on behalf of the USFA and won't want to put any actual numbers here as it might jeopardize their negotiating position (all venue prices are negotiated, depending on the number of hotel room-nights your event can bring in). If I were to put a range, I think the USFA would like to have something under $1000/day.
Thanks Eric-
I'm not really interested in trying to organize a NAC or nationals, I was mostly just curious what the general numbers were, so you answered my question perfectly.
-B
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"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
__________________
"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
I think people would love to come to Hawaii and get away from the hurricanes, snow, and earthquakes. Maybe the Hawaii Division could make a special arrangement with a local University for out of towners to stay in a Dorm at a special rate. All others could check into a hotel if they want to combine their fencing with a vacation. Promote this idea. With the recent Hawaii Open being such a success, it could be a great thing. BUT...the work involved would be tremendous, you would need to start a committe NOW for next year, or even the year following.
Originally posted by edew: Sam (purp fencer), how do you justify claiming that you have to take out a second mortgage to get there? Airfare to Hawai'i is not that expensive, especially from LA, where you're based (hope you don't mind me telling the world that).
Nope, don't mind it at all. I've said it myself many times. I don't have THAT many enemies (I hope)
This season's PCS circuit events have included Long Beach, Las Vegas, two in San Francisco, and Hawai'i this past weekend. While the airfare for me to Hawai'i is the most of all the others (I don't have to fly to the SF events), it was certainly worthwhile and not at all unreasonable.
Your logic in your first paragraph about how many Hawai'i fencers attend PCCs is irrelevant. They, first off, don't have that many fencers. And second, every year for PCCs, they have traveled to the mainland. Can't you accommodate them just once?[/quote]
Okay, maybe I was typing before I thought it out (Moi??), but I’d still only take a chance on the trip if I could consistently make it out of the 1st DE round to justify the expense of the trip. Vegas did major damage to my checkbook, and I didn’t even gamble. Like I said, if I get to a “C”, I’d seriously consider it. As an “E”, nope.
There’s also the psyche component of an overseas trip to go fence, regardless of the prestige of the competition. Going to Sacramento this year is only going to cost me a few tanks of gas (same as sectionals last year), and I can find an inexpensive motel if I’m not staying with someone. Hawaii is expensive, no matter what.
Besides, since my car just blew the distributor, I’ll have to scrimp a bit to afford a driving trip to Sac. Real life intrudes, as always.
Suppose we can arrange charter flights from major cities (LA, SF, Chicago, NY, DC, Atlanta, etc.) for, say, $450/person. Would that be convenient enough for people?
Oh, parking at the Aloha Tower Marketplace, where we had the competition was $2.00/day.
Fifteen fencers from Japan (Tokyo?) showed up to compete, 13 were women and 2 were men. Two coaches also came. It was a great time fencing. The Japanese women sabre fencers were quite good, as were some of their foil fencers. Didn't have much opportunity to observe their epee fencers.
You should come out next February.[/quote]
If I hit the lotto... While it was great to have Japanese fencers out, it’s not surprising, since I believe it costs less for a Japanese native to go overseas for a golfing trip than to pull it off at home.
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Sam Signorelli -- I'll be mellow when I'm
DEAD!
While it was great to have Japanese fencers out, it’s not surprising, since I believe it costs less for a Japanese native to go overseas for a golfing trip than to pull it off at home.
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