improving use of preparatory actions

[drippingwet]

I'm interested in improving the use of my preparatory actions, and have come across a couple of terms:

- Russian preparation. This is apparently a half-lunge and recovery with the back leg first gaining distance backwards.
- Hungarian preparation is two fast steps forward followed by a step back.
What are the advantages of develping actions from the above preparations?

What are the uses of cross steps and bouncing footwork (epeeists might be able to help here).

P.S. I'm a foilist.

[garyhayenga]

I'm interested in improving the use of my preparatory actions, and have come across a couple of terms:

- Russian preparation. This is apparently a half-lunge and recovery with the back leg first gaining distance backwards.
- Hungarian preparation is two fast steps forward followed by a step back.
What are the advantages of develping actions from the above preparations?

What are the uses of cross steps and bouncing footwork (epeeists might be able to help here).

P.S. I'm a foilist.

Cross-steps (as opposed to fleching) should only be used when outside of distance since you lack the capability to change direction quickly.

Bouncing footwork, as in epee but not quite as useful, disguises which direction you are going to go next but limits the maximum amount of tempo change you can make somewhat.

Double-advance retreat is excellent for training your opponent to attack *now* (on the retreat) or suffer a double-advance feint lunge attack. This can make even fencers who know better feel like this if done well.

Half-lunge recover farther back than you started is very useful against a more advanced fencer. Typically half-lunge recovery is used as a setup for parry-riposte (or counter-parry-riposte) and the more advanced fencer is taught to feint attack into it. But if you recover farther away than you started out you are not going back to a known distance and a feint-attack will be too far away and (if you've done it properly) an advance-feint-attack will bring them too close, making them vulnerable to prise-de-fer.

gary hayenga

[drippingwet]

Thanks for that.

Just a small question though. If you're at advance lunge distance when doing the Hungarian preparation, then you aint gonna need the two steps. So should you be at advance-advance-lunge distance?

[garyhayenga]

Thanks for that.

Just a small question though. If you're at advance lunge distance when doing the Hungarian preparation, then you aint gonna need the two steps. So should you be at advance-advance-lunge distance?

Yes. You should.

[drippingwet]

lol, simple question, simple answer, but what what I'm really getting at is why would you be at advance-advance-lunge distance in the first place? I know perhaps distance doesn't have to be a set thing, you can change distance as you like, but it's just a question I have, however unnecessary or dumb the question might seem.

[prototoast]

lol, simple question, simple answer, but what what I'm really getting at is why would you be at advance-advance-lunge distance in the first place? I know perhaps distance doesn't have to be a set thing, you can change distance as you like, but it's just a question I have, however unnecessary or dumb the question might seem.

You'd be at advance-advance-lunge distance before you're close enough to be in advance-lunge distance but after you're in advance-advance-advance-lunge distance.

[garyhayenga]

You'd be at advance-advance-lunge distance before you're close enough to be in advance-lunge distance but after you're in advance-advance-advance-lunge distance.

Another simple answer to a simple question And completely correct too!

My simple answer would be, at the on guard lines at the start of the bout.

My more complex answer would be whenever I can as that's my preferred fencing distance. One cannot fence at advance-lunge distance for very long before a decent opponent does an advance-feint attack, which competently done is very difficult to stop. Best not to let them start it. So they won't let you get there either or you will/could do it to them first.

So I spend a lot of time at double-advance-lunge distance trying to get to advance-lunge distance. And if my opponent lets me do that I usually crush them without much effort. Usually they catch on and when I advance-feint they retreat beyond advance-lunge distance, and I advance-feint again and they retreat beyond advance-lunge distance, and then I retreat inviting them to attack me. If they don't accept I repeat the process until they go off the back of the strip. I could just keep advance-feinting, but a better opponent will break that up because it's too predictable. Much more difficult to break up the double-advance-retreat.

More clear?

gary hayenga

[drippingwet]

You'd be at advance-advance-lunge distance before you're close enough to be in advance-lunge distance but after you're in advance-advance-advance-lunge distance.

I didn't ask when. I asked why.

[rory]

Another simple answer: you change distance depending on your opponent and current tactics.

If your opponent has a long, powerful lunge, you may wish to back off a notch.
If your opponent likes to take control of the blade with large sweeping actions, maybe keep the same distance with the legs, but pull your hand in a little, making it easier to disengage the collection.
If your opponent is much taller than you, get in closer.
etc.

[Epeecurean]

The way I see it, a double-advance is NOT the same thing as advance-advance. There are two steps in it, but they very short and rapid steps such that you don't necessarily cover more distance than a single normal advance. So I don't see a need to do this from advance-advance-lunge distance. Just plain old advance-lunge distance is fine.

The purpose (at least when I do it) is to create the impression of pushing hard & suddenly with the intent of closing the distance. It is kind of a stampede effect. This often provokes an attack into preparation which is easily dispatched with a pre-prepared parry-riposte. Or if they don't attack into it, follow up with a patinando (an accelerating advance-lunge, the advance starting quite slow).

[Gruntled]

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