Epee tip distance testing

[mrbiggs]

I forget the technical term for what I'm talking about. Basically, in epee, it's the test where you make sure that the tip has to be depressed for a certain distance before it goes off.

So, three questions:

1. What's it called?

2. What's the distance the tip has to be depressed before registering a touch?

3. Anyone have a clever way to test it with items easily found around my house?

Thanks.

[veeco]

1- The shim test

2- You should have at least .5mm of residual travel before the touch goes off, and 1.5mm of complete travel (that is the distance between the most extended tip position and completely shutoff tip position).

3- You could use automotive gauges (those you use to check the spark interval)

The RuleBook has all the information, check rule t.44 for all the information.

http://www.usfencing.org/Forms/Rules2004.pdf

[CvilleFencer]

As to handy ways to do the shim test, I like the fingernail test. With two exceptions I have never seen a tip that would pass the fingernail test but fail the shim, and in those two cases the shims that were being used were very old... Anyway, the fingernail test is to just put the tip of your thumbnail in between the barrel and the tip and press. If it goes off you need to adjust the travel and if not you are probably fine. The exception being if you have abnormaly thick and gross nails or are part werewolf...

[The Armourer]

I second the thumbnail test! Our old coach and my armouring mentor used to use it all the time. I assume that your not a werewolf?

[acaba]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

3. Anyone have a clever way to test it with items easily found around my house?

Thanks.

After doing this for many years, I can eyeball it pretty closely. One friend has a calibrated thumb nail. It works rather well.

If you want to get all technical, go to the store and pick up a set of metric shims. Make sure it has a 0.45mm shim. Since the requirement is 0.50mm +/- ?? (too lazy to look it up), make sure you use a shim a little on the thin side.

[mrbiggs]

Thank you very much. "Shim" was indeed the word I was looking for. The fingernail test is what I'ma do.

Oh, one more question. If the blades don't pass it, what do I do to fix it? (Should I press on the tiny spring attached to the tip?)

[glowstix]

if they fail the shim test, the contact spring needs to be shortened (ie turn in a clockwise direction, i think??).

whats more interesting is how can one adjust the contact spring to where the the weapon scores with 0.45mm but NOT for 0.5mm. that is the real challenge!!

[CvilleFencer]

As to how to fix it, that depends a bit on what type of point you have. Some of the spiffy points out there have it so that you can stick a very small screwdriver up the spring and turn a screw to adjust the travel. On most of them use just carefully twist the spring on or off about a quater to a half turn at a time to get the travel correct. In some cases you have to get a little creative in stretching the spring if it will not turn, or just rip in off and put a new on on. For some reason, especially on German tips it goes on a lot easier than it comes off... Also note that you do not have to put the grub screws in each time, just set the tip on and test it with the handy thumbnail making sure your tip does not shoot across the room when you take you have off.

[DHCJr]

All the above are very good. I would like to reiterate what Veeco stated. The fingernail has one disadvantage and it is the same disadvantage that most fencing shim test has. They are Go/No Go test. The weapon will pass whether it is at 0.45 mm or at 0.00045 mm. With the later, unless you get a solid hit you won't get a touch.

What is better is to use a set of Automotive gauges as Veeco suggested and get the tip in a range. I would suggest around 0.35 to 0.45 for most. You can make it tighter range.

[The Armourer]

Absolutely right the comment by DHCJr above - it was one of the first things I bought - a set of fencing shims along with a weight.

[Alain]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

I forget the technical term for what I'm talking about. Basically, in epee, it's the test where you make sure that the tip has to be depressed for a certain distance before it goes off.

So, three questions:

1. What's it called?

2. What's the distance the tip has to be depressed before registering a touch?

3. Anyone have a clever way to test it with items easily found around my house?

Thanks.

1. In the UK, we call it "travel". Not sure why, though...

2. 0.5mm - but, just to make sure, hit your opponent really hard

3. Er, buy a travel gauge that's 0.5 mm in diameter, and keep it in the house..?

Hope this helps

[The Armourer]

Originally Posted by Alain

3. Er, buy a travel gauge that's 0.5 mm in diameter, and keep it in the house..?

I think this is a typo - it should of course be thick (not diameter) you can buy the gauge from any equipment manufacturer - its worth getting one.

[DHCJr]

What they may be thinking of are called standards. They are round bars and are used to test gaps. I have standards for testing my Sabre gauges. I have 2 for each of the sizes 1.2, 4 and 6. One is slightly smaller and one slightly larger. The difference between the 2 is 0.001".

But as you stated, normal Fencing or Automotive gauges are thickness.

[Alex_Paul]

There is a step by step guide here http://www.leonpaul.com/armoury/epee...aintanance.htm and we are working on an animated 3d movie, I hope that it helps.

[brtech]

Quick update to CvilleFencer's note about not needing to put the screw in to test if you have the contact spring set right:

You also don't need the pressure spring (the big one). Take it out and just hold the shim in place while you put the tip in and press. Your test light should not come on with the shim in place. If it does, take the tip back out, screw the spring in another 1/4 - 1/2 turn and try again. As was stated, it's easier to turn the spring in than out, so do it a little at a time until the light stays off. Then, CLEAN YOUR BARREL (its open, always clean it when you open it) and put the pressure spring in, the tip and then put the grub screws back in.

[DangerMouse]

You actually do want the pressure spring in. The pressure from the spring deforms the cup slightly and makes a difference in exactly when the contact spring hits. It also helps to make sure the contact spring is not shorting on the pressure spring and the tip is straight.

[CvilleFencer]

Argh! Dangermouse beat me to the keyboard but yes indeed, put your spring in. It makes a very slight differance, and since we are talking about .05mm here, a slight differance is a big deal.

[CvilleFencer]

Argh! Dangermouse beat me to the keyboard but yes indeed, put your spring in. It makes a very slight differance, and since we are talking about .05mm here, a slight difference is a big deal.