removing an old wire

[remise]

For all the wiring experts out there - can anyone tell me the fastest or easiest way to get an old wire out of a foil without acetone? I'd rather not have my kids messing around with it, but I do want them to start learning to do repairs themselves.

[CvilleFencer]

The easiest and quickest way is just to pull it out starting at one end of the other. Unmount the blade, remove the tip, find an end and just give it a pull. Keep your preasure/tension smooth and consistant so as not to break the wire. It is sometimes helful to score the top of the wire/blade groove with a small screwdriver to break up the glue on top at first if there is a lot of glue on the blade. Also if you find yourself snapping the wire as you try to pull it use a large pair of pliers, clamp one end of the wire in it and roll the pliers up the blade wrapping the wire around the tongs of the pliers as you go while keeping a consistant preasure on it.

After you get the wire out clean it very well using an old screwdriver, thin hacksaw blade, or Dremmel cutting wheel, but if you go for the last one make sure to wear eye protection and a breathmask so you are not breathing powdered superglue. In order to have a good re-wire you have to make sure the groove is clean so take some time and care in this part.

Best of luck!

[tsalyards]

Come on! Kids love breathing in acetone! But seriously. I went to the hardware store and had the ends of a pipe threaded and capped, one tightly and the other for screwing off, and it makes a nice acetone bath. All you need to do is drop the blade in there for a night or two and the glue disolves. It's clean and not too hazerdous.

[Purple Fencer]

To add to Cville's post...

If you're going to go the Dremel route, the cutting wheel you want is canned a diamond wheel...it's technical a cutting wheel, but it cuts fencing weapons VERY VERY slowly...perfect for grinding the glue out,,,,or even the wire itself.

In addition to eye protection, if you're going to grind a wire out, wear a breathing mask (dried glue fumes...)

[SJCFU#2]

One alternative to an acetone bath is a glue-specific solvent (assuming you know exactly what glue was used). Solvents for CA "super" glues are generally available wherever specialty glues are sold (i.e. hobby stores).

Another alternative is an electric hot air gun (the type used for stripping paint). Heat a short length of the wire (maybe 10 cm) and pull at the end with a pair of pliers. As the wire comes loose, rotate the pliers so that the wire wraps around them, then move on to the next portion of the wire.

Two things to remember: 1) Do this in a well ventilated area (the fumes can be almost as bad as acetone); 2) Use a hot air gun - not a torch (you want to break down the glue, not alter the temper of the blade).

[neevel]

Originally Posted by SJCFU#2

One alternative to an acetone bath is a glue-specific solvent (assuming you know exactly what glue was used). Solvents for CA "super" glues are generally available wherever specialty glues are sold (i.e. hobby stores).

Superglue removers are typically just acetone, usually in mixed in with a gelling substance or otherwise diluted. They're handy for doing quick spot removals (like when some run-off glues the wire to the tang), but take much longer to work than an acetone bath. You're better off just using a sealed acetone bath. Acetone's a lot less toxic than many other common household chemicals. Contrary to what some folks have said in the past, acetone is not listed as a know carcinogen by the IARC. The NFPA Health rating for acetone is 1 (mildly hazardous, not capable of permanent harm). The fire hazard should be of much greater concern than the health risks, which is why keeping an acetone stand-pipe capped except when inserting or removing blades is important.

When I need to do a quick removal of the wire, I'll usually try rolling it out of the wire with a pair of needle-nose pliers like Cville describes. Then I'll use a Dremel cut-off wheel to clean out the grove (and remove any portions of the wire that broke-off and weren't pulled out).

-Dave

[Barry Paul]

If the wire has been glued by us (Leon Paul) there is little/no chance of pulling the wire out carefully. All you need is a hot air gun (paint stripping gun) Hold the wire as Neveel explained gently heat the blade just in front of the plyiers as the glue softens gently pull out the wire, continue carefully down the blade. If you melt the wire you have got it much too hot. All this use of a drimmel and acetone is just not nessary,. Barry

[The Armourer]

Originally Posted by Barry Paul

. All this use of a drimmel and acetone is just not nessary,. Barry

Barry is right - I have never had to do all this acetone and dremmel malarky! I dont think rewiring is perhaps the best thing to get the kids involved with unless they are big kids. Good luck with the rewiring btw.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by The Armourer

Barry is right - I have never had to do all this acetone and dremmel malarky! I dont think rewiring is perhaps the best thing to get the kids involved with unless they are big kids. Good luck with the rewiring btw.

I would disagree with you and Barry in reference to my own needs as an armorer. if I have 25+ blades from one client to work on (a high school team, specifically) and little time to get the job done, dumping several blades in the acetone bath saves me time. And if I'm working av event and some dude needs a fast rewire, a dremel is the way to go.

[neevel]

Sam's right- so long as you don't need to have the blade stripped right now, acetone is by far the most labor efficient way to remove a wire. 1-2 minutes to disassemble the weapon, remove the point, and drop it into the standpipe, and another minute or so to take it out and wipe it down at the other end. Especially if you've got a bunch of blades, there's just no comparison. As for cleaning any dried glue and insulation out of a groove, the Dremel is much, much faster and less labor intensive than doing it by hand, and will do a more thorough job. Even with a heat gun, there will still be some residue left in the groove. It'll take all of 45 seconds to get the groove down to bare metal with a cut-off wheel.

[brtech]

I vote for the heat gun if you are in a hurry. If you can wait, acetone is the easiest, and least likely to go wrong for a newbie.

If you can't wait, use the heat gun. The advantage of a heat gun is that if you are just a little patient, you can get the groove nearly clean; the glue comes out with the wire. Heat guns work because the glue bond breaks down at the right temperature. You want to heat the blade enough so that the wire comes out pretty easily, but not so much that the glue liquifies. You can see the wire come out with the glue around it. A little warmer is better than a little cooler. A couple swipes with a razor knife while the blade is still warm will make it completely clean.

If you are good with the dremel, you can get a fast clean out. Very few people, in my experience are that good. Dave, of course, is one of them.
Almost anyone, with a couple of tries, can get a wire out and clean the blade with a heat gun. But again, if you have the time, acetone is nearly foolproof.

[The Armourer]

Originally Posted by brtech

But again, if you have the time, acetone is nearly foolproof.

What is it Alain tells me - oh yes - make something foolproof and they come out with a better fool!

[mrbiggs]

The way to do it without any complicated tools at all is with a screwdriver and needlenose pliers. Use the pliers to peel the wire out. When the wire breaks, use the screwdriver to push it up until the pliers can get it again. Then, clean out the glue with the screwdriver. With luck, it's 5 minutes. With bad luck, it's a very, very long and tedious task.

You should have acetone around in any case, because it helps get any grease or other slippery substance off the blade which would cause superglue to fall off.

[Lone Wolf]

I have never had to resort to acetone, dremmel, or heat guns to remove a wire. I buy my blades unwired. I clean them thoroughly with a cloth dampened with acetone, to make sure they are 'squeaky clean'. The I apply a glue labeled '527' that one can get in most hardware stores. Then the wire is placed in the blade. Finally, another application of '527' on top of the wire. The blade is dried overnight in a bent configuration. The glue has an amazing capacity for shrinking to a thin 'skin' that holds the wire well in place. It also remains flexible, without becoming brittle and hard like super glue. If I have to rewire the blade, the old wire simply pulls out clean without any need for solvents, etc. I've been using this technique for at least 20 years.

[telkanuru]

Interesting, but is it useful for quick (ex. I need to fence in 20 min) rewires?

[Mergs]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

Interesting, but is it useful for quick (ex. I need to fence in 20 min) rewires?

Nope. Takes most glues that long to properly set, even when using an accelerator.

[Purple Fencer]

Not that I've ever found...last season I had to put together an epee from bare blade to working in about 10 minutes (fastst complete weapon I've ever done). The accelerator set the glue in about 2 seconds, and the fencer ended up using that blade the entire day with no popout problems.

'Course, I may have gotton luck with that one, but the only time I've seen a popping problem (particularly since starting to use the more rubbery superglue) was if I missed a spot...

[beeyeelelwhy]

I don't know about this situation, but usually when removing something that is glued, a good method is to heat the glue with a hairdryer or something first. It makes it easier to peel off. Sorry if this won't work because heating the blade is bad or something. Also i just sort of skimmed through the previous posts so if someone already said this my bad.

[Family Armourist]

O.K. forget about acetone baths. And we all know that just giving the wire a pull can and often does cause it to break. I found a solvent that is not acetone based. It's called Ultra Solvent. 2 applications within 20 or 30 minutes and the super glue turned to jelly and I was able to pull the wire straight out without any breaks. Just go to www.theglueguy.com . $5.98 + shipping saved me a whole lot of time and aggrivation.

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by Barry Paul

If the wire has been glued by us (Leon Paul) there is little/no chance of pulling the wire out carefully. All you need is a hot air gun (paint stripping gun) Hold the wire as Neveel explained gently heat the blade just in front of the plyiers as the glue softens gently pull out the wire, continue carefully down the blade. If you melt the wire you have got it much too hot. All this use of a drimmel and acetone is just not nessary,. Barry

Even better than a paint stripping heat gun is a craft hot air gun. Around here they are likely to be in the rubber stamp section. The typical use is for heating embossing powder to make raised patterns.

The advantage is the orifice for the hot air is about half an inch. The paint stripping hot air guns I have seen usually have an outlet of about an inch.

Another advantage for armorers is that they pack more easily than any other hot air gun I have seen.

Just keep the gun pointed ahead of where you are pulling the wire and work your way up to the tip. The blade can get too hot to touch but I doubt you are affecting the temper any.