fencing from the low line

[drippingwet]

I could ask my coach about this, although I don't know if it's worth it. Lukovich mentioned the advantages of a low guard (which I recently made a thread about), but I don't seem to see many fencers using it. Ideas? Also, to gauge whether it's worth asking my coach about it, what are the principles of fencing from the low line?

[Purple Fencer]

I could ask my coach about this, although I don't know if it's worth it. Lukovich mentioned the advantages of a low guard (which I recently made a thread about), but I don't seem to see many fencers using it. Ideas? Also, to gauge whether it's worth asking my coach about it, what are the principles of fencing from the low line?

In foil I could see a distinct advantage if you fence someone who rarely used 7 or 8 parries...you make an attack fromthose lines and he'll go for a 4 or 6 and pass right over your blade.

Same thing in sabre, plus it's easier to pick off a touch on the underside of the arm...I'm teaching my sabre students to watch for it, tho.

[ReverseLunge]

Nope. No more. With the new foil timings, one needs to keep one's point on target area since the front torso is once again the primary area you need to worry about. Before the new timings everywhere was a target and keeping a hi en garde all the time might leave you open at the hidden targets like upper and lower back.

With the new timing you shuold always keep a high en garde and when retreating you should lean a bit forward in order to counter.

This is all forked up. For years I trained myself to never counter or remise unless I was 100% sure my opponent would miss. Now foil is all about countering and remising in time. might as well go Epee.

[VELISARIOS]

I dont think so that fencing in the low line is safe if you play with epee sword. Sometimes is in use to confuse for a while your oponent but then...I suggest no.
For the other 2 weapons I do not know, because I have no expirience with them.

[Purple Fencer]

Nope. No more. With the new foil timings, one needs to keep one's point on target area since the front torso is once again the primary area you need to worry about. Before the new timings everywhere was a target and keeping a hi en garde all the time might leave you open at the hidden targets like upper and lower back.

Against a more experienced opponent I would tend to agree, but against a relative newbie -- or even an experienced foilist with a tendancy to fall for the windshield wiper -- it could work...other guy'd be too busy waving back & forth trying to find the blade instead of getting out or counter-attacking.

[Mr Epee]

If you have access to any old fencing tape, you might want to take a look at the Boise Sr fenced. Note: not the young Boise who is fencing today.

Boise was an excellent low line fencer and the positioning of his hand often created some interesting optical illusions of distance.

Thinking back, he also had a fairly unusual fencing stance. It may have been the result of some physical ailments.

[noodle]

bullcrap
i fence in low line in all three weapons. the idea is that you have to be ready for what can come in the high line if you open that door. you can't charge forward with your tip on your shoes, it still points forward. nor should you lock your arm in low line, fencing like that always. its just a tool in the box. i have to go to class now, though. just thought i'd throw that stuff out there.

[veeco]

If you have access to any old fencing tape, you might want to take a look at the Boisse Sr fenced. Note: not the young Boise who is fencing today.

Boisse was an excellent low line fencer and the positioning of his hand often created some interesting optical illusions of distance.

Thinking back, he also had a fairly unusual fencing stance. It may have been the result of some physical ailments.

He still does: in last years elite French national championships, he managed to pass 2 rounds of DE, beating Ulrich Robeiri on the way, 15-10. Not only did he fence from the low line, I don't think it would matter for him that much to fence from the high line as well. That man just has an amazing hand and a great feeling for fencing.

[Alain]

He still does: in last years elite French national championships, he managed to pass 2 rounds of DE, beating Ulrich Robeiri on the way, 15-10. Not only did he fence from the low line, I don't think it would matter for him that much to fence from the high line as well. That man just has an amazing hand and a great feeling for fencing.

Amen to that; Boisse is a living legend. A nice guy, too

Depending on the situation, using the low-line can certainly be advantageous - especially in épée, where the whole body is valid target. You must always remember, though, that the secret to using octave and septime is that only your point lowers, not your hand. Lowering your hand (especially in épée) will often cause you to lower your front shoulder, exposing yourself to counter-attacks. However, if your attacks are well-planned and -executed there is no reason why they shouldn't score, regardless of what line(s) you use.

Best of luck!

[parrythis]

Nope. No more. Before the new timings everywhere was a target and keeping a hi en garde all the time might leave you open at the hidden targets like upper and lower back.

With the new timing you shuold always keep a high en garde and when retreating you should lean a bit forward in order to counter.

Perhaps the timing changes affect the "preferred" target, but in reality, the target remains the target. I am not sure the en garde is even involved as the question refers to an attack in the low line. Once you're attacking, you're no longer en garde.

Low line attacks are particularly useful to shorter fencers who are facing taller fencers. They allow the shorter fencer to get in underneath the higher guard-line of the opponent. As indicated by Purple Fencer, someone (tall) who is used to attacking and defending in the high line will pass right over your blade. Some fencers' stances keep their hands low, so you might have to disengage around the hand a bit as the opponent parries, but when they execute the parry and miss your blade, they will leave prime real estate wide open for you to hit.

The most effective attack is the one least expected by your opponent.

[grotto]

Learning attacks which "cut the line" can be invaluable especially in foil. To do this you need to feel at home in the low lines and know how to parry 7 / 8. Let your coach decide if you are ready to add it to your game, but it can be a very effective tool in the ol toolbox (especially against intermediate foilists).

[Doighté]

And of course the low line is extremely useful if you are Pommeling (posting) cos your opponent can't take your blade.

[tchwojko]

And of course the low line is extremely useful if you are Pommeling (posting) cos your opponent can't take your blade.

Um, not true. It's just a different line. Unless the pommeler is going for a very low (below the knee) target, in which case you don't bother taking the blade, you just hit them in the arm or mask or something.

[Doighté]

Um, not true. It's just a different line. Unless the pommeler is going for a very low (below the knee) target, in which case you don't bother taking the blade, you just hit them in the arm or mask or something.

The most common enguard position among pommelers is a very low octave invito. Under these circumstances In order to take the blade the other fencer would have to reach in very low exposing their arm and their upper body, mask etc..
Therefore by having kept to the low line you force your opponent to make themselves vulnerable if they insist on taking the blade (which hopefully no one would be dim enough to try). You also discourage them from making an attack at the low line because your blade is there and even a pommeler would be able to parry that attack strongly enough to deflect your blade.
If under these circumstances you were to attempt an attack at the highline the likelyhood is that the pommeler would use an angulation hit to your arm or even duck under your blade to hit your knee (the advanced targets).
So your only real oppertunity to win is by second intention.

If You use a pistol grip and you find your opponent has a very accurate flick to wrist and is also very good at their preparations and attacks on the blade then the benefit of the lowline enguard demonstrates itself again.

The main key to making use of the low line is distance. You have to have excellent distance and it helps if you have very convincing feint attacks otherwise your opponent drives you off the back of the piste.

drippingwet you mentioned that you haven't seen people making use of the lowline very much, if you go along to almost any of the opens in the UK you'll see people like Rob Gore, Chris Greensides, John Willis etc.. making very good use of the lowline, And if you ever find yourself fencing Marc Burkhalter make sure you're in a lowline enguard or it'll be over within 30 seconds.

Too tired to add anymore right now but I might do tommorow.

[wpotere]

At my German club, most of the foil fencers use a low guard and I have found it very hard to adapt my fencing style to their attacks. However, we have yet to mess with the new timings, so all this may change and then hopefully I will have a slight advantage.

[Gruntled]

Ta Ta Ta Ta Ta Ta Ta Ash To Ash Dust To Dust You Loser!