Sport 7 vs. Uhlman

[peircer]

I was just looking at American Fencing supply website, and they're claiming that Sport 7 are even better than Uhlman points. Anybody try both lately?

[SJCFU#2]

I don't know if I would say they are smoother than the Uhlmann points, however there is far less risk of a mashed screw head. Uhlmann tip screws stick out waiting to be beaten to a pulp while Line 7 screw holes are countersunk so that the heads are flush with the barrel.

[HDG]

I don't know about a direct comparison b/w Sport7 and German-style tips of any brand, but FWIW the Sport7s I put on my foils are far better than any other French tips I've ever used.

[jjrenaud]

seriously, when i compare the both uhlmann is far away better than sport7; that's true in the past uhlmann point were coming from eastern europe but now the point are made in germany and it's a really better quality. i couldn't say the same about sport7.

[mifencer]

I would also put my vote to the German points. Albeit, there's something to be said about durability, but for functionality go for the German.

(Kind of a thread jack)
How about comparing German v. Leon Paul's foil points. I don't have any personal experience in Leon Paul's points, but for what I hear, they're good.

(Now a complete thread jack -- sorry, I didn't think it was worth a new thread)
Does anyone know if Leon Paul is going to be at KC this weekend?

Thanks.

[neevel]

The Sport 7 points aren't a smooth as a clean Uhlmann point, so I've stayed with Uhlmann (with the V2A barrels) for my personal weapons, in spite of the potential for mashed screw-heads. Sport 7's are better than Prieur/HPC foil points (both in terms of smoothness and the durability of the tip), and I'd say they're probably the best choice out there for beginners or for club weapons.

-Dave

[Tiptop]

Originally Posted by jjrenaud

seriously, when i compare the both uhlmann is far away better than sport7; that's true in the past uhlmann point were coming from eastern europe but now the point are made in germany and it's a really better quality. i couldn't say the same about sport7.

have you ever tried the S 7 point once ? because a lot of people have an opinion but have never used them .

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by peircer

I was just looking at American Fencing supply website, and they're claiming that Sport 7 are even better than Uhlman points. Anybody try both lately?

Knowing the guys at AFS, and having asked them about the Sport 7 tips, I can tell this not what they are claiming.

The text on their site is:

08/01/02 -- As of August 1st, we have changed our standard points on our electric foils from HPC to Sport-7. We have been using a mix of Sport-7 and HPC parts for over a year as our standard point complete (Sport-7 red wires and springs, HPC barrels, tips, and screws).

After scrutinizing and testing the Sport-7 point complete, we have found it to be superior in both durability and smoothness in action. Uhlmann point fans should take a serious look at the Sport-7 points.

This, in my reading, says the Sport 7 points are superior to the HPC points. They are.

AFS reccommended the Sport 7 points to me based on cost and quality, especially considering their prices. Sport 7 points (tip, barrel, wire, spring, and screws) run $8 compared to $23 for the Uhlmann. Considering the HPC points fell apart so quickly or performed so poorly, most fencers prefer Uhlmann, since it saved them money. The Sport 7 points are such an improvement, that this may no longer be the case.

I haven't tried the points out yet. If I do, I'll let you know...

[fencerchica]

Originally Posted by mifencer

I would also put my vote to the German points. Albeit, there's something to be said about durability, but for functionality go for the German.

(Kind of a thread jack)
How about comparing German v. Leon Paul's foil points. I don't have any personal experience in Leon Paul's points, but for what I hear, they're good.

(Now a complete thread jack -- sorry, I didn't think it was worth a new thread)
Does anyone know if Leon Paul is going to be at KC this weekend?

Thanks.

I've been using German points for about 4 years now, but I got to try a sample of Leon Paul foil points recently and I'm completely hooked. I've started buying LP's and am putting them on all my new blades henceforth. The movement is just so silky smooth, in my experience, even after months of hard use, the tough barrels resist denting really well (as opposed to my poor battle scarred Germans), and I really dig the way the screw heads are much better protected than Germans, being countersunk into the barrel's walls like French points' are. The only thing that's kind of annoying is that the screwdriver slots in the screws are so thin that I had to get a new teeny weeny screwdriver (tinier than my normal jeweler's screwdriver for my German screws) in order to drive them. But the screws themselves are good and tough, so aside from the one-time minor annoyance, it's all good by me.

[peircer]

Yeah, now that I reread what I wrote, I don't think I meant to say they were saying that Sport 7 is better than Uhlman, but should check them out. Which is why I was asking. This is why you shouldn't post too early in the day before you wake up...

I've been using Germans for at least 5 years now, and except for denting the heck out of the barrels, they've been really good. I haven't used French points in a really long time, but I was so shocked this morning at current German prices I thought it was worth asking.

I do remember talking to an armorer (it was either Ron Herman or Dave Neevel, I can remember which) and they said that Uhlmans were still smoother than the Leon Pauls, despite their durability.

I'll probably stick to German parts though, I know how to fix them. What's with the V2A barrels? I just saw them this morning, and I was wondering what they were.

[jjrenaud]

Originally Posted by Tiptop

have you ever tried the S 7 point once ? because a lot of people have an opinion but have never used them .

of course, because if it wasn't the case i'll haven't made a post on this subject!!!

[cowpaste]

I'm a big fan of Sport 7 tips. The barrels don't dent easily and the the screws don't get mashed in easily. Those reasons alone are why I use them. A dented barrel can often times completely ruin the point. A mashed in screw can often times completely ruin the point. The only problem I've seen with Sport 7 tips is that the insulating cup on the wire is usually way too big. A super easy way to fix this is to take one of those girly nail file thingies and file down the sides a bit.

As for the smoothness of the points, I have no idea which is smoother seeing as I have significant experience only with Sport 7 tips. The only thing I can tell you is that I've never had a dented barrel, and I've never had a mashed in screw. Keep in mind too that a mashed in barrel will make sure the tip travel isn't smooth at all.

[Tiptop]

JJenaud : what is your main argument to tell that Sport"s point is not as good as a german point ?
Anyway a french point should be compared with another french point and not a german one .

[jjrenaud]

i agree with you, if it's to compare a french point it's better to do it with an other french point, ....... but the german point are actually better; of course i speak about the german of good quality not the model made in eastern europe there were a few years ago.

it's totaly normal for you who's sport 7 seller, isn't it? to try to protect your product, but fencing is not only in France, and i think it's easiest to find german system in the world than french one, so do we have to stay in a comparison between 2 french model or is it possible to make a comparison between french and german?

just for you i'm not a fencing dealer, and i've no auctions in any fencing companies.

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by Tiptop

Anyway a french point should be compared with another french point and not a german one .

I totally disagree. This isn't comparing apples and oranges. As a consumer, when I say I need a foil point, I compare all the foil points available.

If I was buying from AFS, you can bet I will compare the french, german, and italian points. I'll consider cost, durability, smoothness, ease of availability, and anything else I can think of.

So, an informed opinion from someone who's tried both is helpful.

[CvilleFencer]

I have used just about everything out there except the Negrinni points at one time or another. After much trial and error I use Sport 7 points on all our club weapons. They are very durable, easy to repair, and best of all they are really cheap. I use German points on most of the weapons I order for students that are starting to do comps and know how to take care of their weapons a bit. They are much smoother and less troublesome than the Sport 7 in my experience. For my weapons and a few of our top-level foilist I use Leon Paul. They are the most durable, smoothest, longest lasting tips I have ever used, period. They are super solid, very reliable, super smooth and superbly engineered. They have three quirks. The screw slots on some batches of the screws are really thin, the screws can be overtightened and this can cause some problems. The only other real drawback is their price. The LP GT are not cheap, but in my opinion they are very much worth it.

On a side note, the V2A barrels by Uhlmann are a special hardened barrel that holds up much better as far as resisting dents and damage. Of course all that means is that you now have smashed screws and a nice barrel instead of a dented barrel and smashed screws.


If anyone is interested our club newsletter has a discussion on this subject. I will post a link here: http://www.strangebreezes.com/cville...ber%202004.pdf The article is about halfway down the document.

[Alex_Paul]

Originally Posted by fencerchica

I've started buying LP's and am putting them on all my new blades henceforth. The movement is just so silky smooth, in my experience, even after months of hard use, the tough barrels resist denting really well (as opposed to my poor battle scarred Germans), and I really dig the way the screw heads are much better protected than Germans, being countersunk into the barrel's walls like French points' are. The only thing that's kind of annoying is that the screwdriver slots in the screws are so thin that I had to get a new teeny weeny screwdriver (tinier than my normal jeweler's screwdriver for my German screws) in order to drive them. But the screws themselves are good and tough, so aside from the one-time minor annoyance, it's all good by me.

There was one batch of screws at the beginning that were outside spec but this issue has now been sorted and they are back to a "normal" size.

[remise]

With the LP points, would you use a German wire?

[CvilleFencer]

You can, but it is best to use an LP wire. A German or French wire you may have to play/file/tape the cup to get it to set correctly. I used a German wire for one I put together for a clubmate but it has been so long ago I do not remember what if anything I had to do to it...

[neevel]

Originally Posted by peircer

I'll probably stick to German parts though, I know how to fix them. What's with the V2A barrels? I just saw them this morning, and I was wondering what they were.

Pierce-

The V2A barrels are made of a titanium alloy and are considerably more resistant to denting and cracking than the standard steel barrels. They're now what I use for my foils.

The best route to go when it comes to buying Uhlmann points and parts is to order from Fechtsport-Langenkamp in Germany. You'll need to buy in enough quantity to offset the shipping charges (either stock up for the season, or put together a group order), but the prices are much lower than going through a US vendor (about $8 for a complete Uhlmann point).

-Dave