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drippingwet · 01-12-2005, 02:54 AM

I heard a while ago that caffeine/coffee isn't a banned substance anymore. Out of interest, has anyone got anything to say about the effect of this substance on reaction time and why it was unbanned?

Welted 24/7 · 01-12-2005, 04:05 AM

I would think that caffeine would hurt your fencing more than anything, since it makes several people I know more jittery than normal, which, as I don't really need to point out, is terrible for a fencer. And contrary to what some people think, it's actually pretty addictive. I was friends with a girl in high school who couldn't make it through the day without at least four sodas, or else she's get migraines and twitches.

In short- bad idea.

Teme · 01-12-2005, 05:20 AM

Caffeine was unbanned because WADA was not happy with the lack of knowledge about it's effects on human performance. IIRC, even the doping limit was set more or less arbitrary. Plus they realized that the way they measured the caffeine dosage (from urine) makes it very dependable on the individual they're testing due to large variation in the speed the caffeine travels to bladder. They're still measuring caffeine, though. Gathering data of individual tresholds and absorbation rates and stuff...

At present it seems that caffeine does improve endurance to some extent, but it mainly makes the enduring more enjoyable. That is, it shifts energy metabolism towards fats making carb storages to last (a tad) longer, ans at the same time you perceive your performance lighter and better.
It also seems to quicken reaction time, but in the test a placebo caffeine had same effect, so go figure... Some say you have to consume caffeine regularly for improved performance, some say regular users have raised treshold and thus no effect.
In any case, all seem to agree that you have to restrain yourself from caffeine for 3 - 7 days before needed performance boost, and then take a small amount about an hour before the peak is needed. Which is a way, in my experience, to get a jumpy, uneasy, trembling, heartbeat overdriven fencer unable to perform even close to his/her normal level

Asphalt · 01-12-2005, 05:28 AM

http://www.britishfencing.com/medicalmatters.html

lots of info on substances banned or otherwise...

Alain · 01-12-2005, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drippingwet

I heard a while ago that caffeine/coffee isn't a banned substance anymore. Out of interest, has anyone got anything to say about the effect of this substance on reaction time and why it was unbanned?

From my (limited) knowledge on the subject... I know that caffeine is a stimulant, but in order to significantly influence reaction times, you'd need to drink like a vat of coffee or tea or whatever, by which time you'd have a roundish mid-section and wouldn't be going anywhere too quickly. Having said that, though, I s'pose you could always take caffeine tablets, which would produce a higher state of alertness without the wobbly bit down below...

Anyway, yeah... Drugs: Just Say "NO".

cowpaste · 01-12-2005, 06:01 AM

Errr...big no for me at least. It makes me a bit jittery, which is bad. It also makes me feel kinda light headed, which is also bad. Lastly, I seem to get tired quicker. Maybe this is just me...I dunno. All my opinions are based on real experience though. I tried having coffee a few times before working out, and it always made me feel worse.

sabreur · 01-12-2005, 06:51 AM

My reaction time without caffeine: None--I appear, for all intents and purposes, to be dead.

My reaction time with caffeine: What would have been normal for me, before age 17 (when I started drinking coffee), if I had not become a caffeine addict.

I occasionally take caffeine tablets when I need a jolt and am too far from a coffee machine or other source.

Caffeine does wake you up, particularly if you aren't used to it. However, you very rapidly develop tolerance, and begin to need regular infusions just to maintain what would have been a normal state of wakefulness.

I suppose you could tinker with your intake and marginally improve your fencing, but you can probably get larger (not to mention more ethical) improvements through autogenous training (self-hypnosis).

MR

JackSparrow · 01-12-2005, 07:32 AM

The British Empire was founded on cups of tea, and if you think I'm going to compete without one, you're gravely mistaken.

telkanuru · 01-12-2005, 08:48 AM

As it takes ~1/2 a bottle of Dew (tm) to give me a caffine buzz, this is not a problem I frequently encounter. However, when it is not in my system, my hands shake. Hey man, you got my good stuff, the Earl Gray?

Yay, aquired tolerance!

But I'v been told pot helps reaction time. But that one is banned, and by more than the USFA.

esskreemr · 01-12-2005, 09:51 AM

The glycogen sparing effects of caffeine have been intermittently replicated, ie some studies find said effect, others don't. Many studies have found that caffeine stimulates the sympathetic nervous system. This could result in caffeine shortenening the onset of endorphin release and promoting adrenaline release as well as a host of other physiological responses.

If they are still investigating caffeine's effects, look for a rebanning at a certain amount (>5mg??).

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 01-12-2005, 11:33 AM

I drank alot of red bull, my point control went to hell, I lost my C. Simple. Caffiene hurts your accuracy alot.

haroldbuck · 01-12-2005, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

I drank alot of red bull, my point control went to hell, I lost my C. Simple. Caffiene hurts your accuracy alot.

You'll excuse me if I don't take your anecdotal evidence as gospel. I'll stick with controlled experiments for deciding these kind of issues.

Caffeine is ubiquitous in endurance athletics; I can't imagine you'd find anyone in the top 20 at, say, Ironman Hawaii that wasn't using caffeine. I don't know of any evidence that it helps with anaerobic sports like fencing.

In addition, I'm sure the Olympic shooters aren't using it. They'd prefer to be using beta blockers if they were legal (and, in fact, part ofthe impetus for making the modern penathlon a single-day event was so that if you used stimulants it would hurt your shooting and if you used beta blockers it would hurt your running and swimming).

mackillian · 01-12-2005, 02:56 PM

Caffiene is a stimulant and will improve concentration in certain dosage levels even with those without ADHD.

For those WITH adhd, you can get a shot of concentration, but then get tired.

MyrddinsPrecint · 01-12-2005, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by telkanuru

*snip*

But I'v been told pot helps reaction time. But that one is banned, and by more than the USFA.

yeah, i've heard that too. probably from the same person. said person also fences better drunk. ---->both probably because it's his normal state.

everything is what you are and aren't used to.

if i'm at practice, and i haven't taken my ritalin latly, it's rather important that i seek out caffeine. Not that i always do it, but.... if i'm not on any sort of stimulant, i can notice the affect on my performance.

so, i'd imagine that everyone would have to find a happy place between no concentration because they're not on a stimulant and no concentration because the stimulant has made you jittery.

Inquartata · 01-13-2005, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haroldbuck

You'll excuse me if I don't take your anecdotal evidence as gospel. I'll stick with controlled experiments for deciding these kind of issues.

Oh, how dare you, sir? Don't you know that everything D+F+P experiences personally can be extrapolated to the rest of the fencing population with 100% accuracy? Tsk, what temerity!

At any rate, I fence sabre, so who needs "accuracy"? ( Whazzat? )