Parrying at the last second

[Grasshopper]

Anybody have advice to learn how to parry at the last second of the opponent's attack?

[mrbiggs]

I would like to hear it as well. I've been having problems recently with taking two retreats, them giving up and extending. I used to be very good at timing my parries, but now something's wrong...

[KShan5[PrFC]]

try after you miss, say to a head cut (sabre) leaving your blade out, not completely in the cut, but don't return back to enguard, and retreat, then take the parry.

[drippingwet]

Hmm, are you getting caught out with disengage, therefore trying to delay the parry, but end up getting caught out anyway?

Take a retreat with the parry maybe. If you try and wait while last fraction of a second against a lightning lunge, then mal parry may be a problem. If you parry too early, then you're vulnerable to disengage. Taking a retreat with the parry, negates the threat in itself and gives you more time to see where the opp's blade is going so you can pick it up.

Maybe you could try stepping in with the parry, at the very start of the opponents attack. Such a parry may be very difficult to deceive.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

And very hard to control.

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Anybody have advice to learn how to parry at the last second of the opponent's attack?

You mean attack arrives with parry?

[mrbiggs]

No, he means wait for your opponent to commit to his attack (usually a lunge in foil), and then parry. That gives you the easiest parries and the best chance of getting a riposte. The negative is that if you're late it's a lost touch, and if you're early, your opponent will probably disengage. (Thus giving him the chance to finish).

[MikeHarm]

When I try this sort of parry I use accelerated timing. If you do it all one speed the disengages will zip right by you before you realize you were tricked. Or at least thats what happens to me. If you go slow to fast your opponent sees the parry start and begins the disengage and you can reverse it in time to catch the real attack.

[haroldbuck]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Anybody have advice to learn how to parry at the last second of the opponent's attack?

Well, you've got the right idea. Parrying more than 1 second before the attack is generally a bad idea. I'd stick with the last second.

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

No, he means wait for your opponent to commit to his attack (usually a lunge in foil), and then parry. That gives you the easiest parries and the best chance of getting a riposte. The negative is that if you're late it's a lost touch, and if you're early, your opponent will probably disengage. (Thus giving him the chance to finish).

You didn't get it.

[Epee_Pox]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Anybody have advice to learn how to parry at the last second of the opponent's attack?

At the moment the attack has terminated, set your personal wrist-time-machine back one second. Live through the second in reverse. Parry the other guy.

I do this all the time, and opponents always interpret the resulting double-image as me simply being blindlingly fast.


May I ask why you want to wait so long before parrying? If the other guy's blade is coming at you just take control of it, push it away, and slide home.

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Anybody have advice to learn how to parry at the last second of the opponent's attack?

i've actually learned to do this well recently in foil (an experienced fencer said i do it at least). i can't describe clearly, how i do it. i think the parry comes at the end of the retreat. if someone has committed to an attack, i usually make sure the parry begins right around the same time my front font lands concluding the retreat. i do make an effort to vary this tempo quite a bit though.

[Grasshopper]

Originally Posted by Epee_Pox

May I ask why you want to wait so long before parrying? If the other guy's blade is coming at you just take control of it, push it away, and slide home.

Spoken like a true epeeist. I want my opponent to think he is going to get a point, just before I hit him.

[Teme]

At least in saber you start to extend your hand giving an impression that you're counter-attacking absolutely late and your opponent has a freebie coming. At the same time you start a sneaky, accelerating step back and parry only at the end of the step.
You can risk a 'late' parry only if your opponent is so committed that the attack is certain to finish in one tempo and you control the distance.

[edew]

There is no reason to always parry at the last second. It's just as beneficial, and tactically so, to parry early to establish right of way. A late parry will generally result in a successful riposte. But an early parry will generally result in a failed attack by the opponent. What you then do in terms of making a riposte is pretty open to different opportunities. If you fail in an early parry, there's always a possibility of a second later parry. If you fail in a last-second parry, you're hit.

[sabreur]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Anybody have advice to learn how to parry at the last second of the opponent's attack?

Parrying at the last second is parrying too early. You have to parry the final MOVEMENT of the attack.

Wall drills are a good way to practice parrying en final:

A stands with back foot against the wall in an invitation (any line).
B attacks from lunge or advance lunge into another line.
A can either parry or remain in the original invitation.
B must either continue the attack directly or disengage into the line of A's invitation.

Teaches A to parry as late as possible. Teaches B to react to very late parries and to judge when the parry is too late...

Also, as others note, the classic "stay in your engarde and only parry the last movement" defense is only one of many options--and generally, a pretty low percentage one at that. Most sabreurs (and foilists that I've seen, anyway) use a very active defense--"fighting with everything they have." You're much more likely to be successful in disrupting the opponent's attack with an active defense, IMNSHO.

MR

[VELISARIOS]

This is the most difficult thing in fencing. You must be master in tempo using, you can understand perfect the distance and be quick in action.

[Alain]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Anybody have advice to learn how to parry at the last second of the opponent's attack?

Hummmmm, good question...

It's all about timing. If you try to take your opponent's blade too early, they'll disengage - if you are ready for this, though, a successive (late) parry will often do the trick. You may need to take a step back after the first parry to help with distance.

Otherwise, make sure that you leave the attacker to come in - signal him/her to do this with a preparation - and then take the parry at the last moment. You'll need to do it when their point has come past your guard, otherwise it'll be too early. Oh, and if you leave it too late, you'll get skewered!

Also, if your opponent is closing distance quickly - with a flêche, for example - then your best bet would be to do a ceding parry: prime, seconde, or quarte...

I hope this helps, best of luck!

[rory]

I think the only way to do this reliably, other than having fantastic hand speed (see the post about wall drills above...), is to set it up.

Draw the attack using footwork, leave an apparently open line, and hopefully they'll make a first intention attack where you want: parry, riposte.

If you know where the attack's going, it's a lot easier to parry it.

[sabreur]

Originally Posted by rory

I think the only way to do this reliably, other than having fantastic hand speed (see the post about wall drills above...), is to set it up.

Draw the attack using footwork, leave an apparently open line, and hopefully they'll make a first intention attack where you want: parry, riposte.

If you know where the attack's going, it's a lot easier to parry it.

You can also use the "Vulcan mind-meld" defense.

As your opponent begins to attack, invite (four or five are best, but you can also do this with a clear invitation in three). Hold the invitation, regardless of what your opponent does. When your opponent finally ends his/her attack by cutting into your parry, riposte.

Works more often than you might think.

MR