Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

tsalyards · 01-09-2005, 10:42 AM

The BF Uhlmann maragine epee blades I've seen are a true work of art, but at $130 bucks a pop I can't quite justify the expense since I don't compete any more. I just learned that Triplette's is the exclusive distributor of BF blades in the USA, and that they have their own line of BF blades. The same maragine BF blade with the TCA stamp is $80. My question is this: is this really an apples to apples comparison. If BF makes both Uhlmann and TCA blades, why not go for the TCA BF blades?

-Tad

noodle · 01-09-2005, 11:04 AM

this question has been asked a lot and answered a lot, so if you want an in depth response, search for it. i'll give a quickie:

triplette is low on the picking order. when BF makes a new batch of blades, the best are picked out long before triplette gets ahold of whats left. yes, the blades are BF blades, but you'll more often than not, find a "runt" of the litter.

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 01-09-2005, 12:09 PM

They suck. Trust me. I own one.

tsalyards · 01-09-2005, 12:54 PM

I tried a search on the subject and did not come up with anything conclusive to say the least. I have heard the "TCA gets the bottom of the barrel" argument before and am somewhat skeptical of it. I welcome some tangible evidence to counter my skepticism:

- BF blades are machine forged, correct? If that is that case, why would there be an immense difference from one blade to the next? This very notion runs contrary to my knowledge of modern quality control. If there is a variance of much greater than 1-2% in the manufacturing process of BF blades, I would argue that their quality is suspect in all cases.

- Assuming that the "bottom of the barrel" argument is in fact correct, how would Uhlmann and the other "first pick" vendors ensure that they are receiving the best lots? How are they measuring the quality without breaking the blades?

Please somebody, enlighten me with some fact and science, because at the moment this just sounds like anti-TCA speak, not educated fact.

Thanks,

-Tad

Pho · 01-09-2005, 10:37 PM

TCA blades aren't a bad, but they certainly do vary far more from batch to batch than an uhlmann blade. In terms of durability, I have found that they last approximately the same length of time since I have had uhlmann maraging blades break in a month and triplette blades last for a year and vice versa. That being said, they tend to have a rougher finish than uhlmann or other BF blades. If you want a TCA BF blade, I would recommend that you buy them at a NAC or at their shop. That way you can pick what you want and be on the look out for any imprefections. Mail order is a little more risky since you can't really test out the blades or look for deficiencies. Bottom line is that I would buy an uhlmann BF through mail order but not a TCA.

cowpaste · 01-09-2005, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsalyards

I tried a search on the subject and did not come up with anything conclusive to say the least. I have heard the "TCA gets the bottom of the barrel" argument before and am somewhat skeptical of it. I welcome some tangible evidence to counter my skepticism:

- BF blades are machine forged, correct? If that is that case, why would there be an immense difference from one blade to the next? This very notion runs contrary to my knowledge of modern quality control. If there is a variance of much greater than 1-2% in the manufacturing process of BF blades, I would argue that their quality is suspect in all cases.

- Assuming that the "bottom of the barrel" argument is in fact correct, how would Uhlmann and the other "first pick" vendors ensure that they are receiving the best lots? How are they measuring the quality without breaking the blades?

Please somebody, enlighten me with some fact and science, because at the moment this just sounds like anti-TCA speak, not educated fact.

Thanks,

-Tad

Those are some good points, Tad. I would like an answer too. I currently have a BF Triplette foil, and I really don't see how it is a "runt."

LUDICROUS · 01-10-2005, 12:39 AM

I'll save a million people their time..

Get Cartel BF whites

Does Cartel have a website? Is it really that cartel-escrime one?

You click on the foil section and you get "electric adult foil". I cant find mention of BF Whites around there at all

angriff · 01-10-2005, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUDICROUS

I'll save a million people their time..

Get Cartel BF whites

Does Cartel have a website? Is it really that cartel-escrime one?

You click on the foil section and you get "electric adult foil". I cant find mention of BF Whites around there at all

Yes, it is Cartel-Escrime. And they're out of stock on BF blades now.. I tried to order a few BF epee blades from them and saw this on their site

LUDICROUS · 01-10-2005, 03:55 AM

OMFG!!!!!!!!

I GET IT!

Wait, how do you specify you want a BF?

angriff · 01-10-2005, 08:05 AM

You can't, at least not at the moment, cos they're out of stock. I guess once they have it back in stock, the option for BF blades will be made available again. Right now if you visit their site, click on "Lames BF?" icon - it's flanked by two yellow triangles with an exclamation mark each - and you'll see this message:

Nous sommes provisoirement en rupture de stock en lames "BF".
Merci de patienter quelques jours avant de les retrouver disponibles sur ce site.

According to my rudimentary knowledge of French, it roughly means:

"We are temporarily out of stock for BF blades.
We appreciate your patience for some days until we find new stocks (of BF blades) for this site."

That's as far as I understand it.. French speakers on this board, please correct me where I've gone wrong

Tiptop · 01-10-2005, 01:54 PM

that's correct..it is the good translation.They are out of stock for the moment

noodle · 01-10-2005, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsalyards

- BF blades are machine forged, correct? If that is that case, why would there be an immense difference from one blade to the next? This very notion runs contrary to my knowledge of modern quality control. If there is a variance of much greater than 1-2% in the manufacturing process of BF blades, I would argue that their quality is suspect in all cases.

batches vary largely in quality. you can find a stiff batch or a flexible one. there are variations despite machine manufacturing due to changes in the environment, materials used, etc.

in any case, you can imagine either a single blade or an entire batch coming out wrong. a single blade is hard to catch, but a whole batch is easier. you'll never know how a batch turns out until its done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsalyards

- Assuming that the "bottom of the barrel" argument is in fact correct, how would Uhlmann and the other "first pick" vendors ensure that they are receiving the best lots? How are they measuring the quality without breaking the blades?

i'd think that they test a few representative blades from a batch and pass/fail the whole thing.

LUDICROUS · 01-10-2005, 05:00 PM

Once it all comes together, how much does a BF white from Cartel cost?
Wired.

achilleus · 01-10-2005, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsalyards

- Assuming that the "bottom of the barrel" argument is in fact correct, how would Uhlmann and the other "first pick" vendors ensure that they are receiving the best lots? How are they measuring the quality without breaking the blades?

You do know how to look at a blade? You can tell a lot just by examining the new blade closely, feeling it's weight, and giving it a few sample bends.

angriff · 01-11-2005, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUDICROUS

Once it all comes together, how much does a BF white from Cartel cost?
Wired.

We won't know yet.. not till they have stock again and include the BF option on their site again. I'll be monitoring their site regularly, goodness knows I need new blades, mine are developing S-curves everywhere..

shlepzig · 01-11-2005, 11:27 AM

I have several BF blades from Triplette and have been quite happy with them, they have lasted over a year of once-twice weekly fencing and a generous tournament schedule. No bends, kinks or other problems, and I like the feel. This feeling has been reiterated to me by other members of my club that use the same blades from the same vendor.

I have heard the bottom of the barrel pick story several times on this forum. It has always been the same story, almost word for word each time.

I take this sort of thing with a grain of salt, being the internet hearsay is often reported as news. As they say it only takes five men to make a tiger. I am personally skeptical of the report, and am very skeptical of how meaningful it is (based on aforementioned manufacturing process control and quality control practices and what I personally know about that subject).

I personally doubt that there is a huge difference between what Uhlman and Triplette gets from the same forge. The voodoo of personal perception of minute differneces is all part of fencing, so opinions are going to vary widely.

That said I would still like to try out the Vniti blades, and the Prieur blades, as I have heard good things about them.

Shlep.

Perhaps I just don't fence well enough for the properties of my blade to yet make a perceptable difference in the properties of my fencing.

noodle · 01-11-2005, 05:22 PM

just to clear something up: i, nor noone else, am not saying that the blades will snap the day you buy them. they're not bad blades, a BF is a BF no matter how you look at it. it is just that people as a whole have discovered that the triplette BFs have a shorter average lifespan. you just get what you pay for.

telkanuru · 01-11-2005, 05:28 PM

I've used both Cartel and TCA stamped BF Whites, and there is a marked difference. I don't know what it is, I just know that the Cartel blades feel better. Heck, the Cartel blades feel better than the Uhlmann stamped ones, which I've also been able to try. You get what you pay for.

A heads up: It's now cheaper to buy BF whites from LPUSA then from BG. The world has gone mad.

achilleus · 01-14-2005, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsalyards

The BF Uhlmann maragine epee blades I've seen are a true work of art, but at $130 bucks a pop I can't quite justify the expense since I don't compete any more. I just learned that Triplette's is the exclusive distributor of BF blades in the USA, and that they have their own line of BF blades. The same maragine BF blade with the TCA stamp is $80. My question is this: is this really an apples to apples comparison. If BF makes both Uhlmann and TCA blades, why not go for the TCA BF blades?

-Tad

Quick update, I received the Triplette Christmas 2004 Catalog this January (

), and noticed that their website pricing is out of date. The BF white go for roughly $110. Which isn't that much of a deal, when compared to The Fencing Post and the 20% online discount.