01-07-2005, 05:25 PM
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#1 | | Member
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Virginia
Posts: 99
| Foil: off target rules question
A very simplistic question for foil.
Opponent attacks, I parry him so that he hits my leg, I touch him. Do I get the point? | 
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01-07-2005, 05:34 PM
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#2 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: CA area
Posts: 6,130
| The question has nothing to do with on- or off-target, as the rules work the same in either case.
The question really has to do with whether the riposte began before the opponent's hit arrived. If you parry, don't riposte, and the opponent's continuation of his attack arrives (either by momentum or by a second effort), on or off target, then the call would be, "attack (by opponent), parried. No riposte. Remise on (or off) target." If you make your riposte a bit late, then the remise has priority. If the riposte is early enough, then the remise is irrelevant.
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01-07-2005, 06:05 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wokingham, United Kingdom
Posts: 581
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by morael A very simplistic question for foil.
Opponent attacks, I parry him so that he hits my leg, I touch him. Do I get the point? | Ummmmm, from my (limited) understanding... if you made a clear parry-riposte, even if he hits you then it's your point - because you have ROW.
Although, as morael says, it has to be a clear riposte, especially with the new timings... | |
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01-07-2005, 06:48 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 787
| If you parry his blade into your leg, then his off target should have priority. In this case, you made a "bad" parry that did caused the attack to not clear your body. If you made a "good" parry, then it is your point because he is remising. As for what a good and bad parry is, it is hard to explain without showing you in real life.
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01-07-2005, 06:53 PM
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#5 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,914
| No such thing as a "bad" parry in refereeing terms. It was parried or it wasn't. If there was a blade contact which deflected the attacking point THEN something was hit (on or off target) there was a parry. If the attacking point hits before or at the same time as the blade contact then there wasn't a parry.
"Bad" parry or malparre are coaching terms that mean only that the blade contact occurred too late.
-B :)
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01-08-2005, 03:31 AM
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#6 | | Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 51
| If you parry the attack and reposte (on target) it's yours so yes, it's your point. | |
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01-08-2005, 03:40 AM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,680
| Listen to edew
His post most clearly points out the most important point: Even if you parry successfully, you must begin to riposte before the remise hits for it to count, regardless of where he hits you.
Oftentimes people (myself included) parry in time, but keep pushing or holding onto the opponent's blade until after it hits, then riposte. So the riposte begins after the remise arrives. The solution? (ok, a solution  ): Parry lightly and quickly so that your riposte can begin before the remise arrives.
But you'll have to be the one to tell us what actually happened. We weren't there. 
Sorry your "simple question" is turning out to be not quite that simple. (as they often do) 
HTH,
-p | |
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01-08-2005, 04:21 AM
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#8 | | Boom!
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada
Posts: 5,925
| I'm not trying to start an argument here, but...
Realistically, how many directors are quick enough to be able to see everything that's happening? Are there a lot of people who can keep up with it and give accurate judging, or in situations like the one that morael mentioned, is it a little more reasonable to expect that the director is going to look dumbfounded at the lights and go with who hit on target?
This is not meant to offend anyone who can actually keep up with the flow of information in a fencing bout... I'm just wondering because some days, I have enough trouble coping with the information from the one person in front of me... | |
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01-08-2005, 04:37 AM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,680
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by ThatReallyHurt Realistically, how many directors are quick enough to be able to see everything that's happening? Are there a lot of people who can keep up with it and give accurate judging, or in situations like the one that morael mentioned, is it a little more reasonable to expect that the director is going to look dumbfounded at the lights and go with who hit on target? | The actions described in this thread are not that terribly hard to see. Also, a ref who decides who's touch it is by looking at the colors of the lights is not having trouble seeing the actions, but hasn't learned that the lights don't tell you about ROW.
That being said, yes, in general ref'ing can be very tough to do perfectly. But like everything else in fencing, seeing the actions gets easier with practice, and experience.
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01-08-2005, 05:50 AM
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#10 | | Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 95
| just make a real parry and you wont have to worry about crap like that. if he hits you in the leg, your parry sucked. | |
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01-08-2005, 11:01 AM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Great Neck, NY
Posts: 246
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by O_O just make a real parry and you wont have to worry about crap like that. if he hits you in the leg, your parry sucked. | Talk about succinct. | |
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