getting fit

[drippingwet]

I'm about to embark on some kind of fitness routine - running basically. Just because I'm young don't mean I don't get spent. In fact I'm really thinking about lots of new stuff now - training/sparring with left hand, fitness, upping 1:1 coaching to 2 hours/week. I'm not going to ask about training with left hand 'cause there's just been a thread on that (uness you have something to add), but I'm looking for some guidance on the fitness side. It appears that running for half an hour, 4 days a week is a good routine. But I suspect this will mainly just improve cardiovascular fitness and some leg muscles. Is their anything else that a fencer can significantly benefit from in terms of fitness/muscle building routines and what do you think of the half hour, 4 days a week approach to running.

Is 2 hours personal coaching/week unnecessary, or more towards what high level fencers are getting?

Thanking you

[Kismet]

I'm not a runner, so I can't really answer any questions pertaining to that...but....jump rope is amazing for fencers. Jack out your childhood skipping rope for 15 minutes a day, and you'll be good to go. Plus, it's super fun.

[Boo Boo]

Running is a very good form of cardio exercise - probably the best. To make it MOST useful to fencing you should look at "Variable Speed" running (you run for a set time/distance and there are a number of changes of pace over that time - from walking, to jogging, to running, to sprinting). Change of pace, as you will know, is important to fencing.

You also should look at:
- Resistance Training (weights) - especially for legs, but don't ignore your upper body and arms too.
- Core Stability Training. I am currently a big fan of using a gym/swiss ball, but there are various methods

You should do these in addition to the running (or other cardio exercise). Best thing to do is join a gym and get them to go through things with you (they will asess your fitness and goals and provide you will exercise programmes to help you achieve them).

Two hours of private coaching a week is great if you can get it and afford it. If not, a couple of half hour sessions would help a lot.

Boo

[Alain]

I'm about to embark on some kind of fitness routine - running basically. Just because I'm young don't mean I don't get spent. In fact I'm really thinking about lots of new stuff now - training/sparring with left hand, fitness, upping 1:1 coaching to 2 hours/week. I'm not going to ask about training with left hand 'cause there's just been a thread on that (uness you have something to add), but I'm looking for some guidance on the fitness side. It appears that running for half an hour, 4 days a week is a good routine. But I suspect this will mainly just improve cardiovascular fitness and some leg muscles. Is their anything else that a fencer can significantly benefit from in terms of fitness/muscle building routines and what do you think of the half hour, 4 days a week approach to running.

Is 2 hours personal coaching/week unnecessary, or more towards what high level fencers are getting?

Thanking you

Running is the staple training of most sports out there (because it's so damn good for you), and it would appear that virtually all the national teams in Europe (excluding GB) run. As you say, it's mostly for your cardio fitness, but if you do it regularly then over the long-term you will benefit considerably. This sounds silly, but the hardest part of going for a run is putting your shoes on... it's really important that you set a routine and then stick to it. It can also be helpful to have a running partner, to keep motivated.
The trick to start off with is little and often. You say 4x per week, for half an hour... sounds pretty good Once you feel comfortable, just increase the frequency (how often you run/week), intensity (how fast you run), or time (how long your workout lasts). Oh, and try to keep off roads, they're not so good for your shins.

One other aerobic exercise you might want to consider is swimming. It's really good for working on your lung capacity. And apart from drowning, it's once of the safest forms of exercise.

As suggested in the other threads, you need to consider going to the gym, to increase your muscular strength and anaerobic fitness. If you're not already a member of a gym, then just go along and tell 'em what you're working towards, then they should help to tailor your programme for you.

For coaching, it depends... if you're happy to up the 1-2-1 coaching then go for it. Also, it depends what coach you have?! Don't forget though that sparring can be just as important, so try to do as much as possible in addition to lessons and footwork... and running... and going to the gym... and school/college/work/socialising....................

Hope this helps, best of luck

[esskreemr]

Jumping rope is a great exercise. In addition to toning just about every part of your body, it's also a fread endurance builder. Add to that the fact that you are developing hand and foot coordination as well as timing and tempo, you can easily understand why it is a staple regimen of boxers.

[JackSparrow]

If you want to be really hardcore about it, you could try running up and down stairs. Fencing obviously requires strong legs and a cardiovascular system that is well tuned. Your muscles, tendons, and ligaments must all be strengthened for the task of repeated lunging and the body's oxygen delivery machine must be well oiled. Stair climbing works the legs in a way that closely simulates many of the demands of fencing. Each of these is heavily dependent on legs that are capable of moving up and down repeatedly for hours.

Nothing can fully replace actually fencing for getting you into shape. World-class athletes know that only about 20% of the time you spend cross-training will contribute to your primary sport. Oh, and by stairs I mean real stairs, not the indoor machine version. While the machine is better than nothing, it can't deliver the whole body experience of outdoor stairs.

Actual stair climbing, as opposed to virtual, offers several advantages:

Enhanced upper body workout - you can't lean on the arm bars.
Stairs don't give when you push down, they offer full resistance.
Real stairs require full body balance, an important element of fencing.

Try to find a flight of stairs in the 200-400 step range for the best interval.
Think of the ones in 'Kill Bill 2'
Go hard on the uphill and easy on the down - the essence of interval training.
Vary your stride length - one stair at a time on one set and two at a time on another set.
Start by walking, but try running them occasionally for more intensity.
Begin without added weight, but as you strengthen consider carrying weight in a backpack.
Be careful adding weight to the feet - it's easier to injure yourself.

I should point out that this is best for improving leg strength and stamina, but is not the best for leg speed. Still, it's pretty much the ultimate cardiovascular workout.

[grotto]

all the suggestions are good. Careful with the weight training though, you want high rep, low weight training, with tons of stretching. This is exactly opposite of what most guys do in the gym. Swimming gives many of the same benefits and is a whole body workout as well. (for another sort of crosstraining) good luck getting fit!

[Asphalt]

you can always tell a fencer who has just taken up swimming...
they're the ones who can't swim in a straight line as their muscles are all lopsided and biased to one side...
another reason to swim - it balances them out.

[Craig]

Running would be fine for fencing if you do it correctly.

Fencing requires aerobic endurance coupled with bursts of high speed / high intensity.

Thus, the best running for you to do would be what is termed "Interval Training" - Go to running.com or active.com and look it up. If your running gets you to doing long runs, then your endurance will be great, but training to run a stable, plodding pace creates the ability to move at a stable, plodding pace on the strip.

The best aerobic is to combine interval training with active plyometrics and an aerobic footwork routine. All of these should focus on maintaining a stable level of activity for aerobic endurance coupled with high intensity periods (bursts).

On a side note - How interested are people in me researching and getting some of these training techniques from experts in the field? Useful or no?

Craig

[glowstix]

On a side note - How interested are people in me researching and getting some of these training techniques from experts in the field? Useful or no?

Craig

very useful!!

by the way, i think running sucks. i think biking is better. much easier on the knees/shins/feet. the thing about biking and running for that matter, is where to do it. road running and biking is not easy.

[Alain]

On a side note - How interested are people in me researching and getting some of these training techniques from experts in the field? Useful or no?

Craig

That'd be great, I'm sure everyone would benefit. Thanks!!!

[Asphalt]

On a side note - How interested are people in me researching and getting some of these training techniques from experts in the field? Useful or no?

Craig

Definitely!!

[riceboy]

On a side note - How interested are people in me researching and getting some of these training techniques from experts in the field? Useful or no?

Craig

Very, even the classical fencer is interested....

--kevin

[drippingwet]

mm, I think I already have good lung capacity. I blew into one of those measuring devices a while ago and it was nearly off the scale. But yeah, swimming seems to be a very overall good workout, without the pressure on the knees and feet, and no feeling hot and sweaty. In fact I used to swim a lot when I was younger, getting my mile, and swimming association gold standard in fastest time (may have just been at that centre, not sure). Anyway, apparently I was gifted, but I gave it up. If I'd been fencing when I was younger, might have ended up passing on that aswell. Maybe when I'm really fit, I'll jump in and see how fast I can now go. Ooh, maybe I'll even compete, but may be a bit old to get into that world now, but then again, if I'm fast enough...??? But running is more convenient unless you've got a lake on your doorstep. And gyms can be expensive. And I would want to pay for coaching.

But if you do plenty of running or swimming, and plenty of actualy fencing, like 10 hours per week, then why the need for all these pylometrics, because your're doing sport specific excercise when sparring, and cardio work when running and sparring. I just don't know how useful things like pylometrics are, and if you'd really notice anything if your endurance and strength was already good because of swimming or running/sparring. I live near two big parks so I don't really need to run on roads, and I suppose the soft ground/grass will be easier on my knees.

Jumping a rope might be good, although I don't know if I know how.

High level GB fencers don't run??????

[Boo Boo]

High level GB fencers don't run??????

Not many...

Lung capacity, by itself, is not as important as how efficiently you use your lungs (a bit like having a big brain... ).

Running on a track (or, failing that, grass) is better for you. Take what Craig and I have said, earlier on this thread, about variable speed running/interval running seriously.

Don't forget core stability and resistance training. If you don't want to join a gym, then buy a gym ball and some free weights, and ask your coach to help advise you of a few work outs. Fitness and endurance are only a couple of the things you need as a fencer: to achieve the most you want to be strong, fast and powerful (it's these that give you acceleration...).

Look at fencers like Lorenzo Taddei and Golubitsky - look at their core stength: their legs can work furiously, but the stability of their torso (and thus their arms, hands and foils) is not compromised. This comes from strong back and ab muscles. Good core stability will also help with your skiing...

Boo

[achilleus]

Michael Johnson, Olympic Gold winner 200m and 400m I believe, convinced me to start weight training and plyometric training.

In an interview, he talked about how the stronger his upper body and core was, the easier and longer he could maintain his form. The longer he kept his form, the faster he ran.

It worked for my fencing. Then I started to look at boxers. In addition to running and sport specific exercises, they also weight train and do plyometric drills. That also worked. Other sports have a lot more money, and thus physical trainers, sports research, and time to learn how to train effectively.

We fencers, as a group, seem to ignore this, and rather than utilizing what other athletes have learned think we are somehow above them.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Michael Johnson, Olympic Gold winner 200m and 400m I believe, convinced me to start weight training and plyometric training.

In an interview, he talked about how the stronger his upper body and core was, the easier and longer he could maintain his form. The longer he kept his form, the faster he ran.

It worked for my fencing. Then I started to look at boxers. In addition to running and sport specific exercises, they also weight train and do plyometric drills. That also worked. Other sports have a lot more money, and thus physical trainers, sports research, and time to learn how to train effectively.

We fencers, as a group, seem to ignore this, and rather than utilizing what other athletes have learned think we are somehow above them.

On the note of boxing, I've been reading the east side boxing forum for the past few months, and have found a wealth of tips to help me with my fencing.

[Alain]

I second the above post by Boo Boo, #15, very good As pointed out, you don't necessarily have to join a gym... as long as you know what you're doing. Boo suggested buying free weights, which is a good start. Even then, you can do a lot of exercises (like press-, chin-, and sit-ups... and running) without any weights at all.

Just make sure that you plan your routine carefully and don't over-do it! They say that the best training for fencing is fencing, and by doing as much as you do you should help improve your overall fitness and flexibility, especially if you do good (hard) footwork sessions at your club (which can include plyometrics, etc) on a regular basis.

All the best

[drippingwet]

ooh I don't do the 10 hour thing, but soon hopefully. More like 5 hours at the moment.

[D'Artag-NOT]

How interested are people in me researching and getting some of these training techniques from experts in the field? Useful or no?

Very, very useful! Please do--and thanks.