Epee tips with addjustable contact posts

[Mergs]

I know I'm getting old and feeble minded, but aren't these style tips (ones that have a screw adjustment for the contact length) illegal? Or was that something that happened in the distant past and now are ok?

[CvilleFencer]

I am not sure at all about this, as far as the legality of it all, but all the ones I have seen that you describe (if I understand correctly) have been called something like FIE points. I have used some of the SG tips that you can use a very small screwdriver to adjust the travel on the contact spring, which is very cool but the things tend to explode on me with the entire bottom part sort of disintegrating inside my point, and in one case damaging the cup/contacts so that I had to rewire the whole blade. I think that someone else (not sure who) is making something like this as well, hopefully with better parts and quality control than BG/SG as I like the idea a lot.

Anyway, I was under the impression that these were made to fulfill some type of FIE test or rules change that did not get implemented but I could be completely wrong on that. If you could adjust the travel on the fly, say with an external screw that you could manipulate with your fingernail during a bout or by pressing and then twisting the tip I could see a problem with it but as long as you have to take the point apart to adjust it I do not see how that is effectively any different than the standard ones. Anyway, even if they are illegal I am not sure how you would ever get caught at it...

[DHCJr]

If they are externally adjustable, then they are illegal. The thing is, not all Epee tips with screws on the outside are adjustable. Sometimes the screw is only there to hold the tip together. If you loosen that screw, it will explode.

The Mion tip (1984) was the only one that was adjustable from the outside. It can be recognized by two screws, one in the end about the diameter of an Epee screw and a very small one in the side for locking it in place.

The others that have screw were adjusted by either adding and removing very small washers (Russian) or filing or adding to a post. The Uhlmann FIE tip which they are still selling the wire, but not the tip, used a hexagonal post that adjusted by screwing up and down and was locked in place by the plastic cup in the wire.

[SJCFU#2]

I'm may be wrong, but I believe that Mergs and Cville may be referring to two different tips.

Mergs may be referring to an epee tip available about 20 years ago (sold as a "MION" tip, IIRC). A screw set into the tip allowed the travel to be adjusted without taking the tip apart. It might have been convenient, however it created the potential for unscrupulous individuals to alter the travel of their point during the bout. Rule M19 currently states "Adjusting the lighting stroke by means of screws or any other external fixing device, once the point has been assembled on the weapon, is forbidden", so these tips would not be legal for competition.

Cville may be referring to the FIE epee tips from the early 90's. Rather than a contact spring these tips had a solid plunger that was shaped to fit into a specially shaped cup. Once the plunger had been fit into this cup and the tip assembled the plunger could not rotate so the travel would not change. At least that was the theory - as I most recall most of them didn't work that well (although some people thought highly of one that came from Russia - rumor was that it was made at an old Soviet missle factory that was looking for new markets). FIE tips were never requried for USFA competitions, and they disappeared from the FIE rule book several years ago, however some epee wires still have the "volcano" shaped plastic cup required with these tips.

EDIT: I see that Donald provided a more concise, yet authoritative answer while I was still dredging up old memories from cold storage

[CvilleFencer]

Actually the ones I was thinking about seem to be different than either of the ones mentioned. The ones I have used are externally indistinguishable from a normal tip. The screw/post of the contact spring can be altered by inserting a small jewelers screwdriver through the spring and adjusting the travel by turning the screw left or right. A nice idea in theory, and that part of it worked fine, but on both of the ones I used the plastics inside the tip shaft shattered and left bits of plastic, spring and screw getting crunched around inside the barrel, with ruined the tip, barrel and cup of one of the weapons. I have seen the type that SJCFU mentions and I thought that LP still sold them, although looking on their site I can't find them know. The ones I thought LP sold had a solid metal block instead of a spring/screw but I had never tried them.

[Mergs]

All,

Thanks for the info and stimulating old brain cells (that hadn't been killed off by alcohol!). I know about the two types of tips that are under discussion, and at one time had the Mion tips (which were great, by the way!). I hadn't seen them for quite a while, until recently. One of the guys at our club just got 'such a deal' on some epees from Fencemart ($25 each!) and now I know why. I didn't remember the Mion tip being a screwless design, though. That's what threw me.

Thanks all again!

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by Mergs

All,

Thanks for the info and stimulating old brain cells (that hadn't been killed off by alcohol!). I know about the two types of tips that are under discussion, and at one time had the Mion tips (which were great, by the way!). I hadn't seen them for quite a while, until recently. One of the guys at our club just got 'such a deal' on some epees from Fencemart ($25 each!) and now I know why. I didn't remember the Mion tip being a screwless design, though. That's what threw me.

Thanks all again!

They were not screwless, at least not the ones made in '84. I still have some of them that were sold at auction after the Olympics.

[Mergs]

I'll check with him again, but I'm pretty sure they were screwless. If so, do you think this is a 'knock-off', with 'improvements'?

Anyone else heard of these?