FIE Jacket/plastron to avoid bruises

[ben2e]

Im not a great fencer but particuarly in Epee, the bruises are taking their toll. Even more so for my wife. We're wearing just the club level stretch uniforms (hers from Santelli, mine from Triplette). I'm considering getting FIE stuff not because I'll ever need it but because I like my skin tone to refrain from blue and yellow.

Can anyone recommend a comfortable & protective jacket or plastron that'll help out with this ?

I'm happy with my Triplette stretch jacket otherwise. Anyone know how their FIE stuff is ? It's considerably cheaper then the Leon Paul stuff.

Thanks in advance,

Ben

[prototoast]

Well, basically stretch FIE stuff will protect less (from bruises) than the non-stretchy stuff, so keep that in mind.

[neevel]

FIE uniforms are rated for pentration resistance, not padding, so some of the lighter weight FIE jackets can actually offer less protection from bruising than a cotton jacket (which usually has several layers, or at least a couple very thick layers).

The chief problem with Triplette's uniforms has been that their design model appears to be a Dalek. The torsos are cut with no taper, and unless you are roughly cylindrical in build they'll fit like a burlap sack. If you're looking for an FIE uniform with good padding, the Uhlmann 'World Cup' (that's the less expensive of their FIE lines, with stretch panels instead of being all-stretch) is pretty substantial, and you can often find good deals on it.

Some of the padded plastrons Santelli made were also useful for protection against bruising, but with Santelli no longer operating I don't know where you'd get something similar; you might need to look at a plastic chest protector. For the elbow and upper arm, a neoprene elbow brace worn under the jacket could serve as extra padding.

-Dave

[CvilleFencer]

I would second what Neevel has said regarding the triplette uniforms, although if you can go to them and be measured it seems to fit much better, and with any luck the new owners will adjust their patterns a bit to fit a more athletic (IE something other than the average middle aged SCA guy) build. It is worth noting that the outer material that TCA uses for their FIE kit appears to be the same that Duelist and a few other high end makers use at substantially less money, although the Duelist jackets use a hydrophobic liner of some sort.

Not to sound sarcastic or mean, but a better investment may be some private lessons or coaching to work on your distance and timing. This is certainly not always the case but often excessive bruising or hard hits is at least partly the fault of the person being hit due to poor distance and/or timing on their part, or a lack of understanding of the correct response to an opponents actions. Of course some clubs just have thugs that throw very heavy hits, wether they mean to or not, and if that is the case "up-armoring" is not a bad idea! Having said that some jackets that you may want to consider are:

Blue Gauntlet padded front or back zip jackets: These are not exactly like fencing with a pillow tapped to your chest but they offer much more impact absorbing material and cushioning than the average jacket for not a lot of money. They range from $45-65 and are well made for the price. http://www.blue-gauntlet.com/cgi-bin...=7052739.15677

American Fencers 3 weapon padded duck clothe jacket: This one also offers good protection, although I find the material to be a bit more stiff and constrictive than the BG one. Of course I would fence in a T-shirt and sunglasses (Gargoyle wraparound ballistic of course) if they would let me. This type of material should hold up a bit better in the long run than the BG however. It runs about $76 or more depending on features and add ons. Just please refrain from getting the metal button jobs unless your last name is Evangilesta or however they spell "Bad for Fencing" in his ancestral tongue.

Of course the drawbacks to these jackets are they are a bit more bulky and if you have a tight fitting lame it can be a problem. They also take a bit longer to dry out than the thin nylon jackets I prefer. The plus side is more padding/protection for the torso and that very light hits, especially in epee, may fail to register on them. They are however legal for fencing in the US. There are no FIE models like the ones mentioned above that I know of, although I am sure if you contact Alex or Barry at LP or even the folks at TCA they could whip something up for you. Some of the many benefits of making all your own gear as opposed to contracting everything out.

As a final option you could get a coaches jacket and/or plastron. They even make a few of these in white and they offer plenty of protection. A final option is a heavy leather vest/coaching plastron/jacket (or just cut down a welder’s apron) and wear that under your kit.

The rumor mill has that a couple of the big fencing houses are working on special materials the "tense up" on impact so as to offer more resistance over a limited surface while still being supple over the rest of the materail. It is a while away yet however and will not be cheap! It will however be very very cool. Until then the old style padded jackets are probably the best way to go.

Anyway, check those out and let us know if you think those will work. If not I am sure we can come up with something else. Best of luck!

[Zilverzmurfen]

Here are some relevant links that you may find useful:

Would you wear a manplate?(guys only)
why do you need a plastron?
Breast Protectors.
Basic question for the ladies.
What to look for in a jacket.
Protective gear.

Hope your bruises will fade soon!

[angriff]

If you fence epee, you might find a combination of the Uhlmann World Cup top (some stretch panels) and Olympia knickers (stretch material, for flexibility) useful. A full set of World Cup kit might be a tad heavy, whilst the material used for Olympia is somewhat thinner.

*Disclaimer: my WC uniform has not prevented some really severe bruising though, but other than extreme cases, by and large it offers great protection*

For Allstar gear, just replace World Cup with Athens and Olympia with Startex - they're all the same stuff except the brand. Hope it helps

[Alain]

Originally Posted by neevel

FIE uniforms are rated for pentration resistance, not padding, so some of the lighter weight FIE jackets can actually offer less protection from bruising than a cotton jacket (which usually has several layers, or at least a couple very thick layers).

He's right. Just cos' you've got kevlar in your clothing doesn't mean it won't hurt when someone stabs you... I have an Allstar 800N plastron and jacket, which are alright but not great, I also have a Duellist 800N which is a lot better simply due to the fact that they're more comfortable and have a wicker lining.
If you buy more expensive kit, it will hopefully be better in quality, but still it won't provide you with a protective forcefield on the piste...
P.S. Your best bet is to keep good distance from your opponent, and brush up on your parrying skills

[rtran]

You should get the fie gear. It won't help the bruising in any significant way but if you're getting hit often and hard enough where bruising is an issue you'll want the "safest" gear you can get in case there's ever an accident with a broken blade.

I happen to have an olympia top (with a separate uhlman fie plastron) with world cup knickers and while I don't get many bruises, I did manage to get one 5 inch bruise along my bicep recently (single hit that rode all the way up my arm). I can only imagine what a jagged blade would do in that type of hit.

[tsalyards]

Epee hurts. Epee bruises. I've got an Uhlmann FIE jacket and wear it with a thick cotton underarm protector, and guess what? I still look like an abused child when I come home to my wife at the end of practice. If the bruises are really bothering you, I'd recommend a weapon switch as epee will always bruise you.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Dont get hit so much. Those bruises are there to tell you that you should have trained harder not to get hit. You're getting hit with a rod of frickin steel, bruises are a given.

[telkanuru]

I dunno. I rarely get bruised. I use an Estoc FIE jacket. When I borrowed a Triplette non-FIE (my good one was in Atlanta being lettered), I was bruised up the wazoo. The only real difference in thickness is the Estoc has a light cotton liner across the chest and weapon arm. This probly makes the difference.

[vonschlick]

I was getting a lot of bruises on my upper arm and chest until I went out and bought a archery wrist guard and a man’s chest protector. I just adjusted the straps on the wrist guard until I could wear it on my upper arm during practice and free fencing. I got the man’s chest protector just for fencing this one guy at my club. He hits really hard and is also the fastest guy by far at our club. I just can’t seem to keep the right distance with him. I fence three times per week and I started getting bruises on my bruises. My wife and kids were beginning to get concerned, so I had to do something besides not fencing to get rid of the bruises.

By the way, I have never fenced in a competition. I fence epee and have only been fencing for about three months. I hope I’ll get better with time and eventually won’t need all that protection.

[mrbiggs]

Backing up what's been said previously, if you think you're having a problem with bruising, a plastic chest protector is a good idea.

On the other hand, I assume you're wife is wearing one, and you mention she's having trouble as well. Where are you getting bruised? If you're getting hit in nearly the exact same spot every bout, you might actually want to alter your fencing. It's one thing to get random bruises, but once you get bruises on bruises somewhere in one night, you know something's not working.

[P.B]

My wife has a Leon Paul 006 Competition jacket and this is probably the thickest jacket I've seen. It's certainly thicker than an Allstar Startex or a Tournois 800N jacket.

And if it doesn't stop you and your wife getting bruises you'll still have nice jackets!

[pammie003]

I fence in an Uhlmann World Cup jacket. It is kind of heavy, and sometimes I get overheated, but I no longer have people asking me if I have an abusive boyfriend. I really like it. I also use a chest protector/plate rather than the hubcaps, which gives me more protection. This might be something that your wife could do.

And yes, the more you fence, the less you'll bruise (once distance and parrying get easier).

Best of luck solving your problem!

[tsalyards]

I'd just like to add that just because one is getting hit and bruising does not indicate that there is anything wrong with his/her fencing per se. While true that if one never gets hit that he/she will never bruise, that's just not realistic is it?

Take myself for example. I like counter attacking with a good deal of forward momentum and stepping into attacks. It's effective. It's also a good way of getting hit hard a lot of the time. I'm not about to change how I fence for cosmetic reasons

-Tad

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

lower your body fat ratio. It seems to me that fat bruises the easiest. I have like, -9% bodyfat or something sickly thin like that, and I never bruise... just an observation. No offense.

[remise]

There's a guy at our club that we nicknamed 'Sledge' simply because he hits hard and has no sense of distance when he DOES hit. Some fencers refuse to fence him, but I've increased my padding and go out there.

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by pammie003

I no longer have people asking me if I have an abusive boyfriend. I really like it.

I had a friend with a similar problem. A teacher expressed concern about parential abuse to her advisor (who was also the fencing coach), and recieved the reply, "Oh, no, that was John." (John = tall, skinny, geeky kid). Needless to say, some explaining was required.

[MyraTrue]

tossing in my $0.02...

I have noticed 3 or 4 mentions of the Uhlmann World Cup (lower end FIE) jacket cutting down bruises. I bought one and noticed the same thing. However, I don't know if the fewer bruises was due to the jacket, or that my fencing was slowly progressing to the point that I was getting hit less.

I suspect that the longer you fence, both you and your wife will find that you are getting fewer bruises. I too was asked about the abusive boyfriend etc, and while I've gotten some amazing bruises fencing WITH my FIE jacket, the higher level of protection, the comfortable fit, and I BELIEVE the decrease in bruises has been nice. And while I used to tell them, 'no, its not my boyfriend'- the boyfriend is an epeeist, and I have MORE fun being able to smiles and say, "that? Oh, thats my boyfriend." and watching the reaction!

The jackets are pricey, though. I don't know how well you or your wife might sew, but I've seen neoprine (sp?) being sold by the yard places like JoAnn's Fabric (think wet suit, or the stretchy knee braces), and potentially putting a layer of that inside the jacket/over your plastron might help absorb some of the impact. It could be the beginner's stage of epee pox- where you wear brusies like badges of honor and there's very little you can do about it until you learn to fence "better".

anyway, good luck.