Fencing overscored

[ReverseLunge]

Does anyone here feel that a 15 point bout is too much? I feel that whoever the superior fencer is can be determined after 7-10 points.

What do you guys think?

[epeezack]

15 is good for me. 15 is enough time to make a come back, but long enough to beat the smack out of somebody.

[ReverseLunge]

15 is good for me. 15 is enough time to make a come back, but long enough to beat the smack out of somebody.

Well I think that can be done within 7-10 points too.

[Tazz]

Having less than 15 would be silly, esp. in epee with doubles, it would be over so quick!
And a DE bout would hardly be any longer than a bout in the pools, which would be pretty dumb.

[esskreemr]

Having less than 15 would be silly, esp. in epee with doubles, it would be over so quick!
And a DE bout would hardly be any longer than a bout in the pools, which would be pretty dumb.

Epee? Over quick? Didn't they institute the passivity rule because epeeist love to stand there and stare at each other???

[ReverseLunge]

Having less than 15 would be silly, esp. in epee with doubles, it would be over so quick!
And a DE bout would hardly be any longer than a bout in the pools, which would be pretty dumb.

So what if its over quick? Its about quality right?

[foildad]

So what if its over quick? Its about quality right?

Are you still refering to fencing?

[achilleus]

Kids today, check your history.

They used to fence to 10, win by two, with a maximum of 12 points being scored.

The bouts were timed for 10 min.

The 1988 Olympics Schmitt vs. Riboud went to time with Riboud tying the bout with 6 seconds left. Schmitt won in the sudden death period.

It's been done. 15 is better. For DE's the less touches you allow, the more patient and careful the competitors are, and the more standing around they do. Ever fenced a one touch epee tournament?

[Tazz]

Epee? Over quick? Didn't they institute the passivity rule because epeeist love to stand there and stare at each other???

We dont stand, we bounce

So what if its over quick? Its about quality right?

Yeah, but as Epeezack says, there needs to be the opportunity to make a comeback, and DE is about getting the best fencers to the finals.

[ReverseLunge]

Ever fenced a one touch epee tournament?

Can you tell us what that is like?

[JackSparrow]

It's a bit of a lottery. Over in seconds and anyone can win if their lucky.

[achilleus]

Can you tell us what that is like?

Boring. People either stand there, or bounce around doing nothing. And then, bang, it's over.

Lots of time goes by with nothing happening.

15 touches allow fencers to really explore the tactical side of fencing.

[esskreemr]

Longer bouts are much better. The fencers get worked up to the point where the climax of the bout is an exciting and meaningful event. The 5 point quickies are unfulfilling for both fencers.

Fencers need the time to explore each other, gauge each other's reactions. By the time this is done, one fencer is satisfied and the other one leaves wanting more.

5 point bouts merely cull the ones who know how to use their weapons from the ones just think that they can stand behind a 3 foot piece of steel. Someone gets it in the end and has to move on. The 15 point DE requires stamina and patience. The one who knows how to use their sword efficiently and effectively moves on the other takes the walk of shame. It's ok if you can't finish the bout. Sometimes, it's hard to get one's emotions up. Other times emotions must be calmed or all the fencer's energy will be spent quickly and he/she won't have the endurance to finish. This is why it is important that fencers, even club fencers, fence 15 point bouts often and change opponents frequently, nothing beats experience.

[CvilleFencer]

You could always fence Vets RL. Nice easy 10 point DE's. I figure what with your being a Vietnam Vet and retired porn star you would be old enough for the vet events!

[mrbiggs]

The thing is that 5 touches, and possibly 10, can be won on a single move or maybe two, under some conditions. This is especially true for less experienced fencers, who may not have come up against, for example, a parry 1 before. 15 touches gives time for the fencers to feel each other out, and forces them to use many different strategies so their opponent doesn't figure them out.

[CvilleFencer]

The one who knows how to use their sword efficiently and effectively moves on the other takes the walk of shame.

Walk of shame Ess? Isn’t that a bit of an overreaction? Do they snap your blades over the Maitres knee when you lose a DE bout down your way? Is there a lone drummer? Do you have to walk through a double phalanx of teammates who turn their backs as you approach? Do you meet the newest fencer in your club at the venue door and then they rip off your patches and grind them underfoot? I might lose one just for the experience! I was always a big western fan and loved Branded. And Have Gun, Will Travel, which if you have ever seen my car you would probably guess!

Sorry, I just could not resist poking a little fun… I am actually fencing foil at the hangover if you would like to come up and swat me for my insolence and all. With any luck I might even get to take the walk of shame! Or at least drag-*** to the concession stand for a Sam Adams!

[Craig]

One format that I would like to see tested is fencing to an amount of time and not points. Go for 1-3 3 minute rounds of fencing time and see who gets the most points. Maybe have a 10 or 15 touch mercy rule in place.

That way you really see who is the best, plus every once in a while you get to see a big swing in the score as one fencer goes on a run to come from behind and win the bout 25-24 as time expires.

Of course, there are a number of fencers that would stall for time to keep the score low (even with 15 touch bouts you get that in epee and women's foil) and there would be others that would force the action to increase the score.

Craig

[glowstix]

One format that I would like to see tested is fencing to an amount of time and not points. Go for 1-3 3 minute rounds of fencing time and see who gets the most points. Maybe have a 10 or 15 touch mercy rule in place.

That way you really see who is the best, plus every once in a while you get to see a big swing in the score as one fencer goes on a run to come from behind and win the bout 25-24 as time expires.

Of course, there are a number of fencers that would stall for time to keep the score low (even with 15 touch bouts you get that in epee and women's foil) and there would be others that would force the action to increase the score.

Craig

probably something like this would work in sabre... if the women get a hold of something like this we'll see a ton of 1-0 bouts

[Torg]

i don't think so. i think there are enough bouts that end within 2 points that it just wouldn't make sense to shorten it. i had a bout a few weeks ago at a large midwest tournament where the score was even until 13-13, when i got stuck and lost 13-15.

some people have enough nifty tricks to switch it up enough to win those 10 points, but once they've exhausted their primary repetoire, they lose a bunch before winning any more points. i think that 15 is enough to show that it's not just a fluke, like some 10-point bouts might be.

[ReverseLunge]

So you guys are saying that 10 points is not enough to know who is the better fencer?

If 15 good then wouldnt 20 or 30 point be better?