Pease help then kindly die.

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by Epee_Pox

...the hypocrite Rogue thinks he is is something none of us can know.

But we can discuss it and (begin sarcasm) call people names like Yankee, redneck, troll…

[LUDICROUS]

Yeah, i retract my first post, was in a bad mood at the time.

Nah, Kiwi is fine

I quite like the name "Yankee"! And yes, i see the hypocrisy you are pointing out.

[mrbiggs]

Isn't "redneck yankee" an oxymoron? I've always used them as opposite terms.

Anywho, I think that this is not dissimilar to the, well, arseholes who display confederate flags on their (usually) pickup trucks. Sometimes more than one. Many continued using them as the U.S. suffered a terrorist attack, and then later, when we had a war (Afghanistan) going on, and then after that, when Iraq turned even worse. I can see how someone might be misinformed by terrorist propoganda living somewhere on the Indain Ocean, but I think it's a lot worse when someone is lucky enough to live in America, and have the benefit of an American education, yet still identifies with himself a symbol that means hatred and rebellion towards the United States.

[Epee_Pox]

You can be a redneck and live anywhere; you don't have to be in the South. There's plenty in the northeast, northwest, plains, mountains, southwest, mid-atlantic, river states, alleghanies and everywhere else.

The whole confederate flag thing stupefies me. I don't understand what there is about it to be proud of. A battle flag of a rebellion against freedom, a rebellion for the right to own human beings as slaves, a rebellion for bygone agrarian aristocracy in the face of industrial egalitarianism.

Is that last one it? Are some of the confederate-flag-waving people longing for an idealized happier, simpler, genteeler time? I doubt it. I think some do it just to be defiant, because it pisses other people off. Some probably do it because they're racists and believe in what it stands for. Others probably do it out of some local-pride thing, that it represents their heritage or whatever.

But since it DOES represent racism and rebellion, you'd think they could pick another emblem. Say, a refreshing mint julep. Now THAT's a symbol I can really get behind!

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by Epee_Pox

You can be a redneck and live anywhere; you don't have to be in the South. There's plenty in the northeast, northwest, plains, mountains, southwest, mid-atlantic, river states, alleghanies and everywhere else.

Yes, as can a Yankee...I've always used "redneck" as a, well, redneck, usually found in the south, and "yankee" as a stereotypical New York liberal.

[Epee_Pox]

Now, see, I always use the word "Yankee" to refer to people who live in Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and much of Upstate New York. But without regard to whether they're liberal or conservative. Just people from the cluster of states up in that corner of the country, in general.

EDIT:

But then again, I was once down in the Carolinas, and took part in a turkey shoot. I wound up winning. The other folks didn't take too kindly to my being a better shot. One particularly riled (and drunk) gentleman asked me if I knew the difference between a Yankee and a Damn Yankee. I said I did not. He said a Damn Yankee don't know when it's time to leave.

I took the hint, and left. I decided that it would not be a good time to point out that I used to shoot competitively for a fine southern university. I got the feeling that I was a Yankee no matter what.

[LordTofuDog-jnr]

Regardless of political leanings if you've had your entire world turned upside down and quite likely lost most of or all of your family I doubt you'd be in the right mood to walk the streets shouting "burn the infidels!"

For all we know though he might not have lost anything, he might've been in land at the time and has come back down to help clean up what's happened.

[gojujay]

Originally Posted by esskreemr

Well, thank you for the psychological analysis. Can you tell everybody what I ate for dinner last night? How about which finger I'm holding up? ..... rant excised.....

Man, you'd think epee_pox was a dentist the way he hit that nerve...

[gojujay]

Originally Posted by esskreemr

Well, thank you for the psychological analysis. Can you tell everybody what I ate for dinner last night? How about which finger I'm holding up?

... rant excised...

Have a Happy New Year Epee_Pox. Love you. Take care. I hope your family has a great New Year-- esskreemr

epee_pox must be a dentist the way he touched that nerve...

[LordTofuDog-jnr]

Originally Posted by gojujay

Man, you'd think epee_pox was a dentist the way he hit that nerve...

Bite me! 12 let min

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by Epee_Pox

One particularly riled (and drunk) gentleman asked me if I knew the difference between a Yankee and a Damn Yankee. I said I did not. He said a Damn Yankee don't know when it's time to leave.

I heard the punch line was;
A Yankee stays up North.

[Bokken]

http://www.anesi.com/ussbs01.htm

Official post-war documentation puts the total death toll from the blasts at about 100,000; not the 200,000+ mentioned. If you're going to throw numbers, throw the right ones.

Hiroshima, from the website mentioned above:

Approximately 60,000 to 70,000 people were killed, and 50,000 were injured. Of approximately 90,000 buildings in the city, 65,000 were rendered unusable and almost all the remainder received at least light superficial damage. The underground utilities of the city were undamaged except where they crossed bridges over the rivers cutting through the city. All of the small factories in the

Nagasaki:

Approximately 40,000 persons were killed or missing and a like number injured. Of the 52,000 residential buildings in Nagasaki 14,000 were totally destroyed and a further 5,400 badly damaged. Ninety-six percent of the industrial output of Nagasaki was concentrated in the large plants of the Mitsubishi Co. which completely dominated the town.

Just in case anyone wants to doublecheck me, search for the "United States Strategic Bombing Survey."

Happy new year!

[esskreemr]

Originally Posted by Bokken

Official post-war documentation puts the total death toll from the blasts at about 100,000; not the 200,000+ mentioned. If you're going to throw numbers, throw the right ones.

"Official" body counts aren't necessary. Rather it's 100,000 or 200,000. Some utilize only figures obtained from direct trauma of the attack, other extrapolate the figures to include disease, death/sicknes from radiation exposure, etc.

From http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/atomic/h...htm#CASUALTIES

Pre-raid population 255,000 195,000
Dead 66,000 39,000
Injured 69,000 25,000
Total Casualties 135,000 64,000

Distance Total Killed per
from X feet Killed Injured Missing Casualties square mile

0 - 1,640 7,505 960 1,127 9,592 24,7OO
1,640-3,300 3,688 1,478 1,799 6,965 4,040
3,300-4,900 8,678 17,137 3,597 29,412 5,710
4,900 - 6,550 221 11,958 28 12,207 125
6,550 - 9,850 112 9,460 17 9,589 20

[esskreemr]

Originally Posted by gojujay

Man, you'd think epee_pox was a dentist the way he hit that nerve...

How long have you been waiting to use that one?

[Bokken]

Originally Posted by esskreemr

"Official" body counts aren't necessary. Rather it's 100,000 or 200,000.

What??? So what're we supposed to rely on, divination and astral seances? Hate to break it to you, but what you cited was in fact an official list of casualties.
Furthermore, here is your original statement:

Were you one of the people that wished we would have "finished the job" we started at Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Oh wait, that was an act of war, so it was alright; I keep forgetting. I'll bet the 200,000+ innocent civilians that died in a flash will remember, except their dead. Of course, we probably killed a couple thousand military personnel so it was ok.

"Died in a flash" and now you're ducking back behind long-term deaths caused by radiation poisoning? That is poor "scholarship," and I use the term loosely.
Read your citation all the way through, you will see that both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military-industrial complexes near population centers (but then, where are the workers going to live except..population centers?). Hiroshima could have been fully operational again within 30 days; Nagasaki back to full capacity in 15 months. If the Americans were the demons you paint them to be, why not nail Tokyo?

If you're going to make sweeping statements like that, be prepared to back them with accurate citations.

[mrbiggs]

It's nearly impossible to get exact tallies of deaths as the result of the atomic bomb, because many of the deaths caused occured many years later as lukemia or cancer. Then you have to wonder, were those because of the bomb, or would they have happened anyway? That's how there's upper and lower estimates.

[lochinvar]

Um, as interesting as this debate over how many causulties resulted from the A-bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, how is it relevant? Are we saying that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the fruit of Bin Laden? Or maybe the guy in the T-shirt did it? Or maybe the tsunami was a direct reprisal for them? Or...what?

"Rednecks", as defined by Jeff Foxworthy ("A glorious lack of sophistication") live everywhere. I have several of them in my neighborhood--complete with Confederate flags on their monster-wheel 4x4's--and I live in the urbanized North.

And the difference between a Yankee and a Damn Yankee resides primarily in the level of intoxication of the observer, in my experience.

[esskreemr]

Originally Posted by Bokken

What??? So what're we supposed to rely on, divination and astral seances?

Well, no?!

Everyone knows that official tallies come from randomly number generators...

I'm sorry, I didn't personally count the death toll. What we can "rely" on are medical records such as later deaths from RADIATION exposure. Radiation exposure has differing effects depending on the strength of the exposure and the time length of the exposure. Too much exposure to quick is deadly. Exposure to radiation can lead to increased chances of certain cancers, mental retardation in exposed fetuses, blindness, and a host of other problems that may or may not kill the individual.

In some cases the actual death toll could be considerably higher than the "official" death toll, in some cases considerably lower. Whose death toll are you going to "rely" on? The attackers? The attackees? A third party. I'm willing to bet that all three "official" numbers will vary considerably.

Hate to break it to you, but what you cited was in fact an official list of casualties.

Point?

Let me restate this since you seem to be obsessing over one statement: Rather it was 100,000 or 200,000 is a moot point to the post. This isn't a post on how many people died at Nagasaki. Just to move things along, I'll defer to your official tally and place the deaths at around 100,000. Does that change the tone of my post? Is it a critical factor? 100,000 is considerably less than 200,000 but is still an astonishing loss of life for such a brief period of time.

Originally Posted by Bokken

If you're going to make sweeping statements like that, be prepared to back them with accurate citations.

I'll bet I can find 10 sources that disagree with your "accurate" citations. I'm not sure why you are so vehement about the count. If you want to argue about the major points of the post, feel free, otherwise, start another thread about how "Japanese atomic bomb fatalities/casualties are overreported." Then requiring an accurate number would actually be relevant to the subject at hand. Not merely a petty sticking point.

[mrbiggs]

OK. Let's settle this.

According to an official government source, a REALLY BIG number of people died because of the atomic bomb. It was a BAD thing, but necessary.

[L.O.A.S.]

Originally Posted by lochinvar

Um, as interesting as this debate over how many causulties resulted from the A-bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, how is it relevant?

Agreed. Does it matter if some people of that region choose to idolize OBL? We give aid because its the right thing to do.

It is an amusing photograph though. I would think that with approximately 60% of all global food aid coming from the USA, that you would see more GWB shirts. I guess we leave those out of the care packages.