Too fast to think??

[fencerontheline]

After a recent change in coaching... I kind of feel like I'm operating too fast to think while I'm fencing. It almost feels as if my tactical and technical has suffered at the expense of operating at the speed this coach wants me to work at. Have any of you guys had the same or a similiar experience?

[glowstix]

is this during lesson or bouting??

when i get lessons, the coach tends to go a bit fast so i don't enjoy it as much as i'd like and my form sometimes suffer; part of it is probably because he usually has a lot of indiv. lessons to give on any given night.

[telkanuru]

My coach's mantra has always been "Do it stupid slow"...

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

My coach's mantra has always been "Do it stupid slow"...

I believe you meant "STOOpid slow." emphasis is important.

-m

[Thorin]

One repitition done slowly and correctly is worth more than any number of fast & sloppy actions. I've watched coaches who give lessons and always do really fast actions, thier students always spend more time making mistakes than doing things right. I can't understand how that can be effecient training.

A good coach giving a private lesson should be able to tell how fast he should be going for you. If you're making a lot of mistakes, then that should be a big hint to slow down until you can handle things. Lessons are where the pressure is off & your coach helps you practice things correctly.

Maybe you should bring this up to your coach. Remember, that he's not psychic & if you don't tell him somthing is wrong he may just never know. You can tell that you'd like to focus on completing your actions, and to ask him to start slowly & raise the tempo gradually as you get more familiar with things. I would hope that he'd be willing to oblige you. If not a change of coaching may be an order.

[Insipiens]

Then again, your coach may feel that you are performing the actions well at the speed he is demanding; he may be trying to encourage you to perform certain actions without explicitly thinking so that they become instinctive and thereby faster. He may be pushing you so that you can improve.

is it just too fast to think, or is it so fast that you are making mistakes. If the latter I would agree entirely with the earlier comments.

Definitely mention it to him, as it will force your coach at least to be explicit about what he is trying to do.

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by Insipiens

Then again, your coach may feel that you are performing the actions well at the speed he is demanding; he may be trying to encourage you to perform certain actions without explicitly thinking so that they become instinctive and thereby faster.

The way to do actions quickly without thinking is to build muscle memory, which is done by doing the same motion repeatedly. the speed doesn't matter so much for building muscle memory, and in fact can be detrimental, as it can prevent it from holding by making your action too inconsistent, or worse: ingrain wrong form. slow and good is the way to train for fast and instinctive reactions on strip.

-m

[grotto]

I start my students slowly, and build from there. I feel speed and tempo come directly from efficiency of movement. If you watch the really good fencers its not so much that they are super humanly fast, it is that they know exactly where they need to be for the situation. teaching slowly lets the student build the muscle memory so as the action speeds up they not thinking about "how" so much as "now"

[counter riposte]

Someone once told me that in order to be a great fencer, you must fence in a Zen state.

Thinking, but not thinking.

Your actions should be near instinctual, but adaptable to the tactical situation that you are faced with. The ability to properly execute tactically and technically three steps ahead of your opponent will give you great advantage, and thinking at that speed will also give you options to the actions that your opponent has scored on (or attempted to score on) during the bout.

Some of the more interesting fencers I have watched will actually allow several touches in the beginning of the bout to tactically analyze the opponent before completely shredding the opponent to a whimper.

Ask your coach on his intentions, but to become an "A" you have to start thinking like one.

[achilleus]

The are several different approaches to learning.

One camp believes that going slowly and correctly is the best. That when needed to, a person will perform at top speed without training for it.

Others believe that to perform at top speed, one needs to train at top speed.

There are test to prove both theories, and precious little hard science to back up either claim. For example, having spoken with some of the top German coaches, they found that training at top speed, and correcting technique is more effective than merely training correct technique.

Both schools correct technique, one just goes slowly.

I find it varies with from student to student, as well as from coach to coach.

Either way, when you start fencing abroad, you begin to realize how slow everyone in the US really is. And unless you're used to fencing, thinking and competing at a faster pace, you're at a huge disadvantage...

[O_O]

the next time you are in a bout, why not ask the guy to slow things down? Im sure he wouldnt mind...

Seriously, if you dont TRAIN fast you wont GET fast. In my mind being able to do a move slightly incorrectly at a high speed is much more effective than doing it perfectly at a slow rate. But i guess thats just me.

[jBirch]

The other thought is that the coach is teaching you to keep your mind empty when you're fencing and to just do what comes natural. They may also be probing you to see what your proclivities when pressed are in order to fix them in the future. Finally, speed variances (slow for teaching, fast for entrenching) cause you to keep your mind flexible and to "read" your opponent instead of anticipate them.

[foilz]

I think about my coaching, like you (I have a great coach!).

Your comments remind me of when I have to direct. Like everyone, I like to fence more than I like to direct. But I do it because I have to get good at it. However, when they ask for feedback, I always tell my fellow fencers what I see. For example:

"You lunge, but you don't hit."

"You attack, but then you stop."

"You parry, but you don't riposte."

Whatever.

This observation tells me that your new coach has watched you fence. Now, you are his pupil, and he is totally focused on you.

He (or she) wants you to fence ... FASTER!

[mrbiggs]

I'm in that exact situation right now. After spending a few days watching DVD's, I realized that I am going far too quickly to defend myself during an attack. My mission, right now, is to slow down my footwork so my bladework can catch up.

[drippingwet]

Perhaps the coach has more mechanically based principles. In other words, preferring to instill good reflexes to the opponent's actions so that you react very fast, rather than him being a predominantly tactical enthusiast, who might use strengths and weaknesses of opponent to defeat them, rather than well oiled machinery and speed.

[JackSparrow]

As has already been stated, the best way to develop muscle memory is through steady repitition of an action. However, I can see also see the benifits of your new coaches method, as it more closely resembles the speed and ferocity of the assualt.

If he is going to increase the pace of your lessons, he should do it incrementally over a period of time so as to get you out of your comfort zone but not overwhelm you with it's blistering speed. Its like you've suddenly been thrown in at the deep end, when you need time to adjust to the transition, however beneficial it is going to be to you in the long run.

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

I'm in that exact situation right now. After spending a few days watching DVD's, I realized that I am going far too quickly to defend myself during an attack. My mission, right now, is to slow down my footwork so my bladework can catch up.

That's funny. I had the same problem a while back.

I just decided to speed up my bladework.