The age old argument - Quality Vs Cost!

[LUDICROUS]

The problem: Once fencing starts up, il be getting some gear(jacket/lame/maybe mask). I could either go the non FIE 350N way, or the more expensive 800N FIE way.

FIE way:

Pros:
Lasts longer.
More comfortable.
Better protection.
More sweat absorbent.

Cons:
Expensive.
(I cant really think of any others...)

Non FIE way: Well, I wont list them, as its obvious that they will be the opposite of the pros and cons of the FIE way!
I definitely plan to stick with fencing for a long time (barring injury or total disillusionment, which I doubt will occur!).

The gear in question is Allstar 350N "Lyon" jacket and the 800N Athens (i think, the cheaper non startex jacket, breeches will come much later).

My parents will maainly be paying for this (i will chuck 100$ towards it though, all that I can really spare..), so I'll need to come up with a good argument.

Expert advice needed to sway them!

[LordTofuDog-jnr]

FIE 800N all the way.

Safer
Lasts longer
You don't crnge at the embarassment of saying you wear 350N (I started with 800N from the get go so I only know of that through vicarious lessons)

Best of all, almost ALL competitions require 800N and if you ever want to be doing nationals then that's what you'll need.

[glowstix]

aahhh yes. FIE or non FIE?..thats the question. to me, you really don't have a choice. it really should come down to what you can afford. if you can afford FIE uniforms and maraging blades, mask, everything, (even the asymmetrics), i say go for it. don't over look the body cords!! uhlmann all the way.

if you can't afford it, then what can you do?? not fence?? in this case, you have to go non FIE. i say, go mixed. get an FIE mask and uhlmann body cords. stay away from FIE uniforms for now unless you can afford it. the mask is very important and if you don't want to lose bouts like i did on bad body cords, get the uhlmanns. i'm broke as can be right now and i just got an FIE mask so i'll be starving. its important. plus, i don't trust my current mask anymore. i've had it for more than a year.

really, the uniforms are not that essential. of course you like the nice FIE feel but the non FIE "knock off" stuff can still protect and you get used to them after a while.

[telkanuru]

Sure, sure, blame the body cords for your demise

[Katman]

I agree with Glowstix. I have an FIE mask and good bodycords/expensive blades, but dirt cheap shoes, pants, jacket and plasteron. I simply do not have the money for the FIE jackets and stuff right now. They are on the very bottem of my 'fencing stuff to get' list.

You don't crnge at the embarassment of saying you wear 350N (I started with 800N from the get go so I only know of that through vicarious lessons)

I have no idea why anyone would be embarassed about that.

[CvilleFencer]

If you plan on fencing interanationally (this is for US fencers only so the original poster may have differant issues) or live outside the US, go for FIE since that is what you will need for tourneys. If you live in the US you can get by with non-FIE kit at any US tourney including summer nationals and NAC's but if you can afford FIE kit, as mentioned above it does last a bit longer and is a bit safer, although the only lethal fencing injuries I know off have happened in countrys that require FIE kit to begin with so I am not completely convinced of the "its very much more safe" argument.

I have been fencing with mostly non-fie kit since I started except for blades and masks and have had not problems. When it is time to replace pants or jackets I am only out about $100 for both of them and I get a year or more use out of a set. I would like to get complete FIE kit for the prestige factor and higher quality of LP or Uhlmann kit and because I may be fencing in Europe in the new year, but I really don't think you "need" it in anything other than blades and masks.

[glowstix]

Sure, sure, blame the body cords for your demise

actually i do. i noticed the plugs slipped out of the reel socket after i fleched and hit on numerous occasions. i was fencing an 18 touch bout...thats changing the subject of the thread. point is, if its one piece of equipment outside of mask to go all out on it would be body cords.

[Zilverzmurfen]

I'd say go for the FIE equipment!

I agree it is a little more expensive then the 350 N, but since you said your parents will pay most of the equipment they might be interested in the safety aspect of 800 N.

Good luck!



Ps.
I have the allstar Athens jacket and like it a lot. When next I buy a new jacket it will be the Startex jacket though. One of my pairs of breeches are Startex and they are SOOO great! Stretchy and very, very comfortable. Looks good too, even on me!
Ds.

[Alain]

As most other people have said - if you can afford it, go for the FIE stuff! The benefits far outweigh the cost in the long-run, so argue to your parents that they will be making a wise investment

Best of luck

[tsalyards]

To be completely honest, I'm surprised that the USFA hasn't switched to a FIE safety standard requiring 800/1600 NW.

It's your kneck, keep the blood in your body and off the strip.

-Tad

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

To be completely honest, I'm surprised that the USFA hasn't switched to a FIE safety standard requiring 800/1600 NW.

It's your kneck, keep the blood in your body and off the strip.

-Tad

FIE gear doesnt stop fatality's, maraging blades do however. That unfortuneate event with the ukrainian lad who was punctured in the lung is an example of how worthless the "extra" protection that FIE gear gives is. The blade still went through, and it still killed him. I believe that a better alternative would be to require FIE maraging blades at tournaments, as they tend to break flat.

[telkanuru]

Sorry 'bout that, but for the thousandth time, no they don't. They just break less often.

Last time I checke the Ukranian lad had his lung punctured because his equipment wasn't up to spec.

[oiuyt]

Specifically he wasn't wearing a plastron at all, much less an 800N one. Has led to significantly greater emphasis in the US on referees wanting to actually see the plastron of fencers as they come to strip rather than just asking the fencer and trusting him/her.

-B :)

[glowstix]

Specifically he wasn't wearing a plastron at all, much less an 800N one. Has led to significantly greater emphasis in the US on referees wanting to actually see the plastron of fencers as they come to strip rather than just asking the fencer and trusting him/her.

-B

thats a shame. i think its so stupid that people wouldn't wear protection. its ridiculous. its only for their own safety. and don't get me started on the cup thing again...

[Achilles]

oh man, yeah that cup thing really gets me going. the only thing that i think is good about wearing a plastron is that it protects you from getting cut in the armpit. i have heard that if you get hit in the armpit, and you start to bleed, they are unable to stich you back together because of the type of tissue in that area. as for protecting your chest with a plastron, i have broken ribs wearing one, and not wearing one. if you want to protect your chest get one of the male chest pieces. i believe that allstar produces one.

i personally like the allstar jackets and pants, the ulhman body cords and masks, the $50 allstar blades and the adidas shoes. however if you have knee problems, wear a pair of brooks or soucony (or any kind of cross country) running shoes.

[kalivor]

If you can afford it, go with the 800N/1600N stuff. It's safer. The only reason not to go with the safest stuff available is 'cause you can't afford it, right?

[miyamoto]

I'm big fan of need. If you need FIE stuff, get it.

FIE level equipment didn't exist until the early to mid 80's, and it didn't come into common usage until later. Many countries don't require it for national level competitions. France and the US are examples.

My current coach laughs at all the beginners in the area. Within a couple of weeks, they are all decked out in FIE, and he consider's it a waste of money. He started fencing in the Eastern Bloc years ago, before FIE equipment, and he didn't purchase an Allstar FIE Uniform until he'd been fencing for 20 years. He's not that old, he still competes and isn't elgible for veterans events.

I've been to camps with Kolobkov, epee fencer extrodanaire, at practice wearing sweatpants.

So, is it neccessary to own and wear all FIE stuff, including the plastron and FIE undershorts? No. Is it safer? Most likely.

The big question is do you need it? It won't help your fencing, but it may save you if you're in accident.

[Torg]

so for US summer nationals, are you required to have the 800NW stuff? does that include knickers?

[CvilleFencer]

FIE Equipment Is Only Required For FIE Events. USFA/US Events, Unless They Are Word Cups, Do Not Require 800n Equipment.

[Achilles]

or if you are fencing out of country at an open or higher, and don't forget to have your names and country on your jacket or pants.