Has the U.S. lost it's edge?

[HillBilly]

Originally Posted by Army Fencer

I think that we're shifting from a nation built on products to a nation built on ideas. The top-executives benefit right now, but it will be interesting if they continue to benefit, as information and ideas are becoming more free.

I think the power class in the near future is the creative class. They will be the ones to capitalize on the changing times and economy better than even some of the older big businesses.

It's also important to continue to encourage small businesses and entrepenuers, so that we continue to develop new ideas for the changing times. This is being done, but I'd like to see it done more.

Insourcing also occurs from both Europe and Japan.

Outsourcing is inevitable, and I don't think it should be fought that hard. Outsourcing is better for our companies as well as the nations overseas.

The biggest problem with outsourcing, though, is trying to find jobs for the skilled labor that loses their job in the US. I don't know what to do about them, but I think efforts should be made to ensure through education that the next US labor market is flexible enough to shift from one skill labor field to another. (Thankfully, there will never be a shortage of doctors, but I wouldn't mind shifting to research.)


I agree that we need to focus more attention on alternative fuel supplies. It's stupid of us not to.

I've heard various theories about the oil supply. On one hand, I've heard my thermodynamics teacher say that if the world's population continues to expand as it has, and we continue to consume fuel at the same rate, by 2050, an oil ball the size of the earth would be consumed. I've also heard theories that oil isn't dead dinosaurs, but may be a product of forces in the earth's mantle (and, theoretically, is renewable).

Whatever the case, I agree that we need to be more self-reliant. I know that Bush has at least talked about renewable resources, so I think it's moving in the right direction. I can hope that it goes quickly and is effectively.
[/list]I really don't think that stem cells are our panacea. Just because it's in the media eye all the time doesn't mean that it will work miracles.


The judicial system really needs work. The present sue crazy culture today is terrible. It hurts businesses large and small because of the lack of innovation and the resultant stagnation. It hurts doctors and our health care system--particularly when it comes to malpractice. It hurts the government that gets quagmired in frivolous lawsuits, legal fees, and layer of bureaucracy. It hurts the little guy who thinks he can win big against corporation A, doctor B, or the government, and, after all the legal fees are over, wins nothing.

***

There are things that need to be worked on, and the current political culture makes that difficult. But that was by design. The Constitution makes it that way. Things will change, and they will be for the better. I have faith in the Constitution and the US as a whole.

Other countries will gain power because homeostasis works in any system. And that's okay. We will continue to be a rich country, and we will continue to be a powerful country. If all else fails, we're protected by two pacifistic nations and two large oceans.

That's not president Bush's idea at all. . . He supports a "culture of ownership." Money + goods + tax cuts = happiness?

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Except that it wasn't really humorous. It was a smarmy, smirking partisan shot masquerading as humor. I have gotten really sick of those over the last election cycle.

Funny, I don't recall you getting all bent out of shape when flinging smary, smirking partisan shots at the "liberals" of this board... It's amazing the number of people that get bent out of shape only when thier side is being shot at.

[Army Fencer]

Interesting thoughts.

Originally Posted by esskreemr

Uh oh, a nation built on the backs of starving artists? Sounds like trouble to me

Yup. But ideas have always been the true American currency.

Personally, as the Wal-Mart culture takes an firmer grip, I expect a counter-movement in the next few years.

Good riddence. Wal-Mart IS evil, and it sucks the economic and cultural life out of any town it decides to rend its doom.

Why should we worry about "our companies"? They are just trying to get the most bang for the buck.

Because they are interested in getting the most bang for their buck. Would you rather we do it, or say, the EU do it? If American companies are making money, the money can be used in the American economy.

Employee salaries go down, or increase at a frighteningly miserly rate, company executive salaries, bonuses, and long-term incentives climb through the roof.

Then the employees need to work elsewhere where they can do better. If there job is that poor, then maybe their job should be -gasp- outsourced.

Again, should we supply tax credits to multinats who are actively moving operations to other countries?

I don't know. I haven't seen enough data to say that it is necessarily hurtful to the economy, beyond emotional, election-year pleas. If it's a wash (and I believe it is) it shouldn't be discouraged.

How about more "worker" owned companies? I believe that this may be a trend to look for and encourage in the future.

I don't know enough about these to comment. At first glance, I feel cautious, because I think that leadership is important in any business, and I'm not sure how much leadership can exist if the "people" are in charge of business operations.

As for the renewable oil theory, I was excited at first but grew more and more skeptical as I read the lit.

Very good points.

Talk is cheap, so isn't the $1.2 billion dollars Bush pledged for fuel cell research. Bush's talk about our energy needs has seemed to focus on Cheap Energy by opening up new sources of oil.

I'm not sure what your first sentence is trying to communicate. I'll try to make a stab.

Talk isn't completely cheap. I think that talk is still movement to try to change American culture regarding alternative fuels. I think it is significant that a Republican President is encouraging their use.

But $1.2 billion pledged for fuel cell research pledged is pretty good. More would be better, but what else do you want?

They may not be the panacea, but they are currently the holy grail for research and thusly research funds. Better to hedge our bets and stay ahead of the market then to sit back and wait it out.

I still think stem cell research is a scientific dead end.

America has been consistently late in accepting new drugs and procedures. Waiting it out is not a new thing. If you are suggesting that this is the problem, then I will agree with you. We shouldn't be the first out there, but we certainly shouldn't be the last.

I think everybody agrees that reform is needed at some level...Maybe we're listening to the wrong people

Suggestions for who we should listen to?

Because of technology we helped spearhead (GPS, missile design), that buffer still exists but is no longer impenetrable.

Sure. But that doesn't mean the "buffer" is not important.

Call me an optimist, but the situation is not as bleak as the world you present.

Here's another question that you may want to consider: What happens if the US does lose its power and we're no longer the Hegemony? Will the world be that terrible?

[cowpaste]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Thank you, Deep Thought II.

What do you expect? A long drawn out "logical" progression that I learned from some stupid freshman college class? The very nature of the thread is an opinion. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong. If logic actually mattered then it wouldn't take me god damned one hour to get rid of the bloody missionaries when they come to my front door (without just slamming the door in their face, of course).

[Achilles]

the U.S. has been a major superpower for many years, if you look back at history, each major superpower has their rise and fall. I believe that we are seeing the begining of the fall of the U.S. as a superpower. I also believe that they way things are heading, China is going to become the next superpower within the next 10-15 years.

[Army Fencer]

Originally Posted by cowpaste

Nobody is right and nobody is wrong. If logic actually mattered then it wouldn't take me god damned one hour to get rid of the bloody missionaries when they come to my front door.

[soapbox]
I suppose the next thing you're going to tell us is the halocaust was a morally excusable event.

Tolerance as an excuse for reasoned thinking is absolute BS. Absolute right and absolute wrong may be impossible to achieve, but there are certainly answers that are more right and more wrong.

The fact that you were interacting with people who didn't respond to reason doesn't mean that logic is meaningless, it just means your audience was irrational.
[/soapbox]

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by Achilles

China is going to become the next superpower within the next 10-15 years.

i don't know about that one...at least not as soon as 15 years. i think the US still has a long way to go.

[cowpaste]

Originally Posted by Army Fencer

[soapbox]
I suppose the next thing you're going to tell us is the halocaust was a morally excusable event.

Tolerance as an excuse for reasoned thinking is absolute BS. Absolute right and absolute wrong may be impossible to achieve, but there are certainly answers that are more right and more wrong.

The fact that you were interacting with people who didn't respond to reason doesn't mean that logic is meaningless, it just means your audience was irrational.
[/soapbox]

Did you come to this conclusion with your "logic?" cow thinks logic is sometimes pointless, so he must think killing millions of jews is OKAY! OMG HE IS EVIL AHHHHHHHHHH!

[Army Fencer]

Originally Posted by cowpaste

Did you come to this conclusion with your "logic?" cow thinks logic is sometimes pointless, so he must think killing millions of jews is OKAY!

That's not what I'm saying. But in the presence of tolerance (inferred from your comment, "nobody is right and nobody is wrong"), you could morally allow for it. And that is where logic leads me.

Logic doesn't always give the right answer, but it does get us closer to right answers. That doesn't sound pointless to me.

Apologies for bringing up Hitler; I should have been thoughtful and creative enough to think of a better example.

This is a major digression. Shall we return to to the thread at hand?

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Specifically US. problem: Legal system. Possible solution: Implement many legal ideas/traditions from developed countries with much less of those problems.

1st world problem: Graying population will make pension allowances/promises unworkable. Solution: Politician who can win an election on a message like this: "we are in a large mess, and there is nothing painless that can be done to fix it. Even the best solution entails a lot of hurt, but trust me to be the best to deal with it." Call me back when that happens.

Global problem: Reasonably cheap energy supply drying up, literally. Solution, short term - gratly increased nuclear energy production. Solution, long term - large part of desert areas covered with photovoltaic cells, and fusion power problems finally solved at ITER.

1st world problem: Outsourcing of factory production to low-wage countries. Solutions: retraining of those factory workers who are highly talented into something matching their talents. Solution for the rest of the factory workers, the large majority: wait until factory wages in India catch up with those in the 1st world, so the motivation for outsourcing ceases.

All in all, an exercise in trademark PeterGustafsson optimism!


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by Drifter

It's amazing the number of people that get bent out of shape only when thier side is being shot at.

Is it? Really?

Are you familiar with people at all?

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by cowpaste

What do you expect? A long drawn out "logical" progression that I learned from some stupid freshman college class?

Er---yes?

The brain needs to be exercised just like the body. That's best accomplished by making it think, rather than just make emotive snap statements, no?


Condolences on having your time wasted by the Jehovah's witnesses, though.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by Achilles

the U.S. has been a major superpower for many years, if you look back at history, each major superpower has their rise and fall. I believe that we are seeing the begining of the fall of the U.S. as a superpower. I also believe that they way things are heading, China is going to become the next superpower within the next 10-15 years.

That synopsizes a longstanding theory of global political thought.

After China, India is usually projected to be the next world hegemonic state, based on demographic and growth trends.

[cowpaste]

Originally Posted by Achilles

the U.S. has been a major superpower for many years, if you look back at history, each major superpower has their rise and fall. I believe that we are seeing the begining of the fall of the U.S. as a superpower. I also believe that they way things are heading, China is going to become the next superpower within the next 10-15 years.

I think I would have to agree with you. The fact that bothers me the most is that USians are becoming the stupidiest and fatest people in the world. I'm sure most of you agree that our kids' education will be our future.

Speaking as a college student, this is more evident than ever. I'm eyeing graduate school right now, and one thing is very clearly obvious: the vast majority of graduate students are foreigners (A LOT are Chinese). I guess this is not too surprising if I look back at my own graduating class. Most of the people who finished with honors (magna/suma cum laude) were foreigners.

Perhaps my observations were unfair do to my location. I assure ya'll though, that I've been looking at more than one college. It's just a very clear trend.

Have USians just stopped trying? I for one have NOT. I am dedicating my self to nerdom. I will study instead of work for money. I will sacrifice a healthy sex life. All this for you!

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by cowpaste

the vast majority of graduate students are foreigners (A LOT are Chinese).

And yet you notice that they are all coming HERE to study....

[cowpaste]

They are coming here to study to escape China. I never said that the Chinese government was fun to live under. Their education system is very good though apparently. It's also exponentially easier to succeed here due to the very very poor competition.

[Inquartata]

Mmmm...not sure I buy that logic. I mean, are people eager to "escape" Hong Kong, Singapore or Taiwan? Those places aren't exactly under the thumb of the Party, are they?

And a lot of the students from the mainland end up going back after their educations are complete.

Sure you aren't projecting your ideas of what life in China is like, from a Western perspective, onto them? It may be much less disagreeble to natives than it might seem to us, looking in...

[neevel]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

And yet you notice that they are all coming HERE to study....

There were a some prominent news stories in the last couple of weeks regarding how that is changing. Whether it's a permanent change is yet to be seen, though. Regardless of one's position on the Iraq war, it's become clear that the US isn't going to just up and invade every potential adversary over the next few years (even guys like George Will are startng to sour on Wolfowitz, Feith & co). As emotions over Iraq and 9/11 settle out the more usual economic forces will come to the forefront again.

Regarding the rise of China and India, just because they're coming up doesn't mean that the US will decline in an absolute sense (i.e., become poor while they get rich), just in a relative sense (we'll stay rich while they become rich, too). Also, it's not a gimme that they'll march straight into hegemony within 2-3 decades. People often forget that for every person in China who is gainfully participating in their modern economy, there are still 8-10 people who are basically living in the 16th century and really getting the shaft. This has the potential to be a huge socioeconimic time-bomb, and it's not clear how China will address it. India has this same problem, too (though since India has a functioning democracy, they may actually be better positioned to handle it-- the results of the most recent elections in India were widely interpreted as the lower classes saying "hey, don't forget about us").

Remember that 15 years ago many were predicting that Japan was going to own everything in the world. Then they hit a prolonged recession, and everyone shifted to saying Japan was finished as an economic superpower. Sure, the Japanese economy didn't become the all-conquering juggernaut that prognisticators were saying it would in 1988, but Japan remains the 2nd largest economy in the world and very wealthy by any measure. Even when China overtakes them in GDP, Japan will be a major economic power.

[cowpaste]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Mmmm...not sure I buy that logic. I mean, are people eager to "escape" Hong Kong, Singapore or Taiwan? Those places aren't exactly under the thumb of the Party, are they?

And a lot of the students from the mainland end up going back after their educations are complete.

Sure you aren't projecting your ideas of what life in China is like, from a Western perspective, onto them? It may be much less disagreeble to natives than it might seem to us, looking in...

How about this: My friend's lab partner is from mainland China. This lab partner dood's entire graduating class went abroad (mostly to USA) in order to get out to China.

When did I ever say anything about excaping Hong Kong, Singapore or Taiwan?