Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays?

[Moonitic]

Originally Posted by dunastor

I don't think Christmas has that big of a religious aura anymore. It's just a holiday at the end of december.
For some people there still is the whole "birthday of Jesus celebration"-thing, but I believe that to be a minority. To wish someone merry Christmas is to me somewhat the same as to wish someone a happy weekend. I don't have to wish every Jewish person happy sabbat every week do I?

Sorry...not the "minority." Most "flavors" of Christianity (except Seventh Day Adventist, & a scant few others) still recognize the Christ in CHRISTmas. That's the whole point of Christmas, to celebrate the birth of Jesus (yes, we do realize he was not born on December 25th, but we don't always celebrate OUR birthdays on the day WE were born, do we?).

Again, say whatever you want, just don't tell other people what to say or not say. Enough with the raging political correctness. Christians are told constantly to "get a thicker skin." Maybe it's not the Christians who should, in this case. I wouldn't be offended at all if my Jewish friends came up to me & said, "Happy Sabbath" every week, or on any of the other special days they celebrate. I'd feel honored that someone wanted to share that part of themself with me. That's what the holidays (all of them, right??) are supposed to be about: sharing. Why try to stop people? Are others so threatened by someone else's faith? We're NOT forcing you to get days off of school, or days off of work. No one is forcing you to spend your money. For many of us, it's not about that. It's about spending time with the people you love. Retailers push the spending part into our faces because that's what retailers do. It's part of their business, no matter what holiday. Heck, some even have "huge, blow out sales" for ARBOR DAY.

Right now, I have a huge problem with this topic. Schools & businesses are threatening their employees if they say "Merry Christmas" to students or customers. Christmas music isn't allowed to be played in some of their pageants. BUT...they do crafts & such relating to Hannukah, Kwaanza & more. That's not right. Lawsuits are being filed because of this.

Let people be people. ALL people. That's what America is supposed to be about.

[CutLass]

It's easy to hurt people's feelings with your personal assumptions. Those that make you believe that most everyone thinks and believes like you do. I'm often surprised how often an assumption I make about someone, even very casual beliefs, can turn out to be quite different than my own.
At the holidays, it's probably important to try to be sensitive to the people around us and not surround them with our messages of joy and good tiding, but make it a point to inquire of them and wish them well.
So, the vote is "Happy Holidays" for me.

[jeff]

With all respect, moonitic, part of your comfort level with other people's expression of their religions is a consequence of being part of the majority religion in this country. I doesn't make you feel threatened because your religion is by far the dominant one and not subject to proselytization or exclusion.

While I agree with you that it can get out of hand and people can be excessively sensitive, it's worth thinking about what made so many people sensitive on this subject in the first place. The issue isn't merely saying "Merry Christmas" to somebody, it's having other people's religions imposed on people at every turn in what should be secular parts of life, and feel for example that the government is sponsoring proselytization. I remember in public school in NYC, everybody having to sing Christian hymns whether they liked it or not, and believe me that caused offense. So, let's not assume a sense of victimhood for the religion that after all is the dominant one in this country.

FWIW, I think the threat to religion is the commercialization of the holidays, as several people have noted. That's what really takes the spiritual out of the holiday, not being polite enough to wish people a Happy Holiday.

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by CutLass

It's easy to hurt people's feelings with your personal assumptions. Those that make you believe that most everyone thinks and believes like you do. I'm often surprised how often an assumption I make about someone, even very casual beliefs, can turn out to be quite different than my own.
At the holidays, it's probably important to try to be sensitive to the people around us and not surround them with our messages of joy and good tiding, but make it a point to inquire of them and wish them well.
So, the vote is "Happy Holidays" for me.

No where is there a law that make it illegal to offend someone.
If someone is offended by someone else's words, it is entirely the offended one's problem. Get over it.

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me!

Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas!

[Rogue]

If I were in a country where displaying one's middle finger was a sign for "Hello, I'm so happy to see you", would I continue to be offended after I was informed of the intent of the gesture?

Should the entire country quit using that gesture, for the sake of me and my family to not be offended, even after I was informed that the meaning of said gesture was a nice greeting?

[Repechage]

Originally Posted by Rogue

No where is there a law that make it illegal to offend someone.
If someone is offended by someone else's words, it is entirely the offended one's problem. Get over it.

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me!

Ah, so I take it that when you say "Merry Christmas," the intent is not to wish someone a happy holiday, but rather to wish them a "#*&)&%@##." In which case we will all take it in the spirit intended.

And anyone who believes words can never hurt apparently was home-schooled in a barrel with the bung driven in.

[Moonitic]

Originally Posted by jeff

With all respect, moonitic, part of your comfort level with other people's expression of their religions is a consequence of being part of the majority religion in this country. I doesn't make you feel threatened because your religion is by far the dominant one and not subject to proselytization or exclusion.

While I agree with you that it can get out of hand and people can be excessively sensitive, it's worth thinking about what made so many people sensitive on this subject in the first place. The issue isn't merely saying "Merry Christmas" to somebody, it's having other people's religions imposed on people at every turn in what should be secular parts of life, and feel for example that the government is sponsoring proselytization. I remember in public school in NYC, everybody having to sing Christian hymns whether they liked it or not, and believe me that caused offense. So, let's not assume a sense of victimhood for the religion that after all is the dominant one in this country.

FWIW, I think the threat to religion is the commercialization of the holidays, as several people have noted. That's what really takes the spiritual out of the holiday, not being polite enough to wish people a Happy Holiday.

Actually, I feel threatened. I'm not comfortable. All of a sudden, people can't smile & say "Merry Christmas" without someone threatening a lawsuit or the loss of a job. People in general might not see it, but nowadays, it's not "okay" to be Christian. We're told on a daily basis that we can't think for ourselves...that we're stupid...that we hate people...that we're "losers" & lowlifes...that it's our fault the country-& the world- is messed up. And now this...We can't express our beliefs. Well, I'm tired of it. It's okay to be anything BUT Christian, according to far too many people. It's okay to offend us & to take our holiday away little by little, but God forbid we say anything, or we're immediately labeled as "insensitive," or worse. There's something distinctly not right about that.

Again, I say, say what you wish. If you prefer one thing over another, go right ahead. No skin off my butt. It's your life. But other people's lives aren't yours. Other people's mouths are not yours. Let them say "Merry Christmas," or "Happy Pickle Day" if they are so inclined. You can always choose to ignore it or educate someone on your own traditions. It won't kill anyone to do that.

A thought: Maybe it's not because my religion is the "most popular" that makes me "more comfortable" with what others say. Maybe I realize that it's OKAY for other people to have their own beliefs, & to express them. I could be that secure in my own beliefs. Maybe I like learning about others' religions in a non-threatening, festive way.

"Merry Christmas doesn't mean, "Believe in Jesus or I'll kill you." Nor does it really mean, "Buy something for great aunt Gertrude, you stingy s.o.b." It just means "MERRY Christmas."

TALK to people, & LISTEN when they answer you. You might be surprised at what you learn. It's the best way to dispell misconceptions.

That said, I'm done. PM me with any thoughts or questions if you'd like. I'm pretty much done with this subject. And...it's Christmas.

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by Repechage

Ah, so I take it that when you say "Merry Christmas," the intent is not to wish someone a happy holiday, but rather to wish them a "#*&)&%@##." In which case we will all take it in the spirit intended.

Brother Take it how ever you want. It's not within my power to make you feel a certain way.
Unless, I had that power that the Firestarter’s dad had.
mmmm mmmm mmmm ( in a whisper) "you feel hurt, your self esteem has been injured for life you will never be successful..."

Originally Posted by Repechage

And anyone who believes words can never hurt apparently was home-schooled in a barrel with the bung driven in.

Now I have heard of being talked to death but it has never been proven.

Words only hurt if you give the speaker of "offensive" words power over you.

Happy Pickle Day Moonitic!

[jeff]

You completely missed my point, Moonitic, and look at the "I'm a victim" attitude, which strikes me as bizarre in a society that is mostly Christian, at a time when evangelicals increasingly influence public policy - even how science is taught, and when the president of the US is himself an evangelical. It's more "okay to be a Christian" in public today than it has been for years, but I understand that the posture of victimhood, as with other movements, is important for keeping the base mobilized.

It's really nice that you "realize that it's OKAY for other people to have their own beliefs", but bear in mind that evangelicals evangelize - it's part of their mission, and they DON'T think it's okay at all, and put a lot of effort into trying to convert others. That should make it clear to you why others feel threatened when Christian theology is brought into a school - there often is intent to convert all those Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus. It's not about this nonsense over what greeting somebody uses.

Nonetheless, Merry Christmas to you, and maybe have a look at Matthew 7:3 or Luke 6:42

[Rogue]

Jeff, don't be so stereotypical. Most Christians don't want to beat people over their heads with Bibles to convert them. I believe most Christians are practicing in the way your scripture references direct. But, being less than perfect does not mean I should be quiet till I am perfect.
True the main religion is Christianity in this country and therefore will have some spill over into the public arena, unless we penalize those who don't believe, or burn them, dunking tank etc, we should not feel sorry for hurting their feelings.
Why are they hurt? Do they not have security in their beliefs?

[jeff]

Rogue, that was why I was careful to say "evangelicals", not "Christians" when referring to attempts to convert. Why is it so hard to understand that non-believers might feel that Christians are trying to convert them, and resent that, when sometimes they _are_ trying to convert them? Let's separate (IMO) silly things like saying "Merry Christmas" instead of a generic greeting from serious ones like having non-Christian kids having to sing songs about baby Jesus in a public, government-provided school (which I remember).

I have to go now, so I can do some housecleaning. It's Christmas tomorrow, and I have company coming to the house.

[esskreemr]

For me, Merry Christmas may come out as a force of habit. I respect most religions equally , however my family is Christian, so some of the ingrained habits are difficult to break.

As a note, I've had the opportunity to celebrate many different Holidays with many people of different cultures. Just like their core beliefs, the celebrations were essentially the same: fun, music, laughter, dancing (sometimes), and most of all food!

I think people should lighten up and realize we ARE living in a multi-cultural world. We can't stop and ask people "Are you religious? If so, what religion are you? Well, Happy/Merry [insert religion/season here]." In addition, we attempt to remove stereotyping but expect everybody to derive our religous/spiritual/none of the above beliefs based on our looks. When somebody wishes you a Happy Chanukah, a Merry Christmas, etc., they are wishing you happiness and good health from the perspective of their social/religious background. They are not forcing you to bow down in their respective manners to thier respective god. I for one am always happy to eat free food; the blessing is just a bonus!

When someone greets you during this season which is particularly impregnated with the Holidays of various religions/cultures, take the greeting for what it means: Happy wishes for you during a festive season for them.

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by jeff

having non-Christian kids having to sing songs about baby Jesus in a public, government-provided school (which I remember).

And The schools provided a much better education back then.
And since you are having company for Christmas I would like to wish you a very Merry Christmas!
Or, Happy Festivus!