Point in line

[oiuyt]

RoW helps sport fencers get touches even on "simultaneous". Without it, fencing bouts would last forever.

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration... epee bouts can take a while, but forever? :)

-B :)

[jeff]

It just seems like forever!

[mrbiggs]

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration... epee bouts can take a while, but forever?

-B

Well, if you watch foil, and think about throwing out EVERY time there's more than one light (off targets, too), I think foil would last a good deal longer than épée.

[edew]

I would disagree with that. Especially now with the new timing, a good many touches in foil (and saber) are single-light situations. A lot of fencers
are working on doing so, so that any questions of right-of-way will be made irrelevant.

[mrbiggs]

I would disagree with that. Especially now with the new timing, a good many touches in foil (and saber) are single-light situations. A lot of fencers
are working on doing so, so that any questions of right-of-way will be made irrelevant.

That's true. With the new timings, and new timings that would be created in the situation I described without RoW, simultaneous actions would not be common. But RoW was invented before scoring boxes, back when a director couldn't be 100% sure whether or not the fencers hit, much less if one hit 1/25th of a second before the other. (If epee timings were used...)

[OffTarget]

I would disagree with that. Especially now with the new timing, a good many touches in foil (and saber) are single-light situations. A lot of fencers
are working on doing so, so that any questions of right-of-way will be made irrelevant.

I do not think that right-of-way will ever be irrelevant. At least as long as it is the foundation for all of the strategies one must devise for foil and saber. Even if the ultimate results are onelighters, the actions leading up to those results will be guided by right of way rules.

[garyhayenga]

I do not think that right-of-way will ever be irrelevant. At least as long as it is the foundation for all of the strategies one must devise for foil and saber. Even if the ultimate results are onelighters, the actions leading up to those results will be guided by right of way rules.

Right-of-way is never irrelevant, even in Epee! The rules of Epee just do not have a referee judging them.

Many, many people think 'It's okay to counter-attack in Epee.' This is no more true than in Foil, even with the old Foil timing. It's only okay to counter-attack if you are *sure* they aren't going to hit you. Against a good Epee fencer you have to assume that an attack is likely to hit you unless you specifically provoked an attack to a particular target from a particular distance, or the attacker makes a *gross* error in technique or tempo. Which the better fencers just don't do that often.

There is no "rule" of right-of-way in Epee. But the principle remains the same and is just as important as in Foil.

In Epee you are trying to provoke a commitment from your opponent without committing yourself, i.e. get them to stand and parry, attack-at-your-preparation, stand and sneer at your invitation (*then* you can hit them with a straight attack because they're busy sneering!), then when/if they do one of the two or three things you've prepared for (expect them in reverse order of dangerousness or likelihood, depending on how well you know your opponent) you make the counter-action taking the hitting tempo away from them.

But against a skilled opponent you *cannot* successfully wait for an attack and counter-attack into it. You can't even provoke an attack and plan on counter-attacking against all opponents. It all depends on the attack and the opponent.

Right-of-way exists in Epee just as much as it does in Foil, but the tempos are much shorter and it's far easier to make an opponent miss a particular target, but they may be ready for that.

gary hayenga