A simple rule question!

[melihop]

Is there a rule that would keep a fencer from putting an object, that just happened to be squeaky dog toy, under their jacket, so that when it got hit, it would make a veryenjoyable and relaxing *SQUEAK* noise?!?!? And if this happens to be aginst a rule, what if this object is a sign on my relegion, much the same as a person keeping a cross necklace on while fencing????


Thanks for your help!!!!

(penguins are the ultimite god!)

[Alain]

Er... I don't think so?!

P.S. Two words: seek help.

[Alain]

Ah, by the way... click this link - http://www.fie.ch/download/rules/fr/RTECHN.pdf - for the complete FIE rulebook. Okay, it's in French (ask me if you need any translation), but I can't find anything that mentions 'zee squeaky penquin toys'...

[CvilleFencer]

If the ref determines that it is a distraction to other fencers or himself, if he determines that it may create an area of your jacket that could catch a blade, or if he just feels it disturbs the good order of his strip not only will you not be allowed to use it, it will accompany a card all the way up to and including the possibility of a black one under a very grumpy or traditional ref.

As to that PC "My religion is Jedi" bull**** save it for the Starbucks and the university bookstore. On the strip the only religion that matters is fencing and if the observation of your religion interferes with the smooth operation of a bout or presents a potential hazard then go be goofily religious elsewhere.

Now if you had asked if it would be funny... Yes it would be very very funny and I can think of a couple of refs/fencers I would like to see such a situation happen with. As long as it was not on my strip!

PS: Penguins rule!!!!!!!!

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by melihop

Is there a rule that would keep a fencer from putting an object, that just happened to be squeaky dog toy, under their jacket, so that when it got hit, it would make a veryenjoyable and relaxing *SQUEAK* noise?!?!? And if this happens to be aginst a rule, what if this object is a sign on my relegion, much the same as a person keeping a cross necklace on while fencing????


Thanks for your help!!!!

(penguins are the ultimite god!)

a) No rule question is ever simple, no matter how simple it is.

b) Not if the ref doesn't notice it. You could put a dil...never mind.

[SwordSoul]

actually, while teaching at a jewish school last year, we ran into an unexpected problem--seems that it is paramount for some sects of judaism (in christianity too) that the girls wear a skirt at all times. Obviously this interfered with the jacket stuff. Some girls were really talented and we wanted them at tournaments, but alas, the skirt thing... what's the ruling? (will look at link later. bandwidth, ahoy!)

[Inquartata]

A microminiskirt, under the knickers. ( Letter of the law. )

Actually, I'm not sure that skirts are prohibited in fencing, as long as the rules about coverage, protection, advertising and so forth are observed...

[melihop]

Originally Posted by Alain

Er... I don't think so?!

P.S. Two words: seek help.

ME SEEK HELP?!?!?!?!?!?!! I don't thinkkkk so!!! I think they would be scared of me!1!! lol! I tried it last night.. and I need to get a smaller squeaky toy.. the penguin was too big!!!!!

[DJ Apostrophe]

Two things:
A: No rule question in our sport is EVER simple.
and
B: Yeshiva university is a fairly strict jewish school, and they have a womens fencing team. see this picture: http://www.yu.edu/athletics/images/YU_Athletics.jpg
notice the basketball player is in shorts, and the fencer is in regular attire. When the women are not fencing, they all wear the long skirts, but while fencing, they wear the knickers... you may have been dealing with a school that is even more strict... but I just thought I'd post about that because I have seen the team.

-w

[Alain]

Originally Posted by melihop

ME SEEK HELP?!?!?!?!?!?!! I don't thinkkkk so!!! I think they would be scared of me!1!! lol! I tried it last night.. and I need to get a smaller squeaky toy.. the penguin was too big!!!!!

Mental. Um, you could always try using like a doggy toy or something, or one that toddlers use - can you borrow one from the asylum..?

[Torg]

Originally Posted by melihop

Is there a rule that would keep a fencer from putting an object, that just happened to be squeaky dog toy, under their jacket, so that when it got hit, it would make a veryenjoyable and relaxing *SQUEAK* noise?!?!? And if this happens to be aginst a rule, what if this object is a sign on my relegion, much the same as a person keeping a cross necklace on while fencing????


Thanks for your help!!!!

(penguins are the ultimite god!)

i don't know/care about the squeaky bit, but you're really stupid if you're wearing jewelry during a fencing bout. a few too many words: impression in your chest. that would just be painful, that's why i stopped wearing a shark's tooth, too much work to take it off and put it on so frequently. i suppose a ring or a bracelet on your back hand would be ok, but necklaces are out.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

A microminiskirt, under the knickers. ( Letter of the law. )

Actually, I'm not sure that skirts are prohibited in fencing, as long as the rules about coverage, protection, advertising and so forth are observed...

I've got an old Castello catalog that has women's fencing skirts: "Circular black velvet skirt, fitted waist, flare bottom". Schnazzy.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

A microminiskirt, under the knickers. ( Letter of the law. )

Actually, I'm not sure that skirts are prohibited in fencing, as long as the rules about coverage, protection, advertising and so forth are observed...

Why follow religious/moral laws based on the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law? If you believe that the law/custom/whatever is something which you should do/believe/follow then you shouldn't be interested in methods of circumventing it. If you don't believe that it should be followed then you shouldn't feel compelled to follow it. Defeats the whole purpose.

If the athletes have a religious belief that doesn't allow for competitive requirements should anyone try to convince them to go against what they believe is right?

I've known a number of Orthodox fencers that cannot fence on the sabbath. Okay, what events they participate in is partially dependent on scheduling. Sometimes that means that they cannot compete in tournaments that they would if they were held on another day. So be it. That is what their beliefs dictate. Why should someone try to come up with some way of twisting reality ("well, if you rip that day off of your 365-day-a-year calendar you can sort of PRETEND that it isn't the sabbath and therefore it's okay to fence")?

People should not do things that they find morally wrong. The spirit of the belief should be significantly more relavant than the letter of how a prohibition is worded in determining whether or not smoething is morally wrong.

That said, looking at the reasons behind the requirement of a skirt could yield valuable ground for finding allowances. Presumably the requirement is as a result of seeing the female form by others is viewed as wrong. Mmmm, yeah, guess that doesn't help so much for this situation where knickers would likely count. If the reason behind the requirement were something else, the spirit of which was not violated by fencing attire, then looknig at that is reasonable.

-B :)

[mackillian]

A friend of mine just started fencing this season with Smith, but can't compete on the Sabbath. Unfortunately, the majority of competitions are on Saturday.

[The Armourer]

Originally Posted by Alain

Mental. Um, you could always try using like a doggy toy or something, or one that toddlers use - can you borrow one from the asylum..?

.... errrr I think you have one or two to lend. 'Whatnot' is too big, but 'Oscar' would be perfect!


PS - It has been pointed out to me that both these soft toys are NOT squaky - sorry, I deviated from the thread!

[Dan H]

Originally Posted by SwordSoul

actually, while teaching at a jewish school last year, we ran into an unexpected problem--seems that it is paramount for some sects of judaism (in christianity too) that the girls wear a skirt at all times. Obviously this interfered with the jacket stuff. Some girls were really talented and we wanted them at tournaments, but alas, the skirt thing... what's the ruling? (will look at link later. bandwidth, ahoy!)

At *all times*? Really? I'd think that might be rather inconvenient!

[wbowman]

Actually, women did fence in skirts at one point. I'm told by a friend who did her Masters' thesis on US women's fencing history that the option of wearing skirts was actually still in the rules until relatively recently. Apparently back in the skirt-wearing days, the target area for women's foil (which was all they were allowed to fence at the time) ended at the hipbones. Probably for safety reasons, but it's also kind of hard to wear a jacket with a cuissard when you're wearing a skirt.
Incidentally, the Virginia Division has an annual mixed dry tournament in which some of the female competitors still show up in skirts.

[CvilleFencer]

Originally Posted by wbowman

Incidentally, the Virginia Division has an annual mixed dry tournament in which some of the female competitors still show up in skirts.

We do? (and ten characters)

[wbowman]

Yep. Though maybe not recently. Sandy Harris used to.

[Pancakes]

What about whoopie cushions?