tough bouts

[wadadli]

this is my first year competing and i guess that i'm somewhat satisfied with the results having a D04 in less than one full season. i've noticed a trend in the tournaments i've been in especially in the tough bouts against the top guys. against people with equal rating i usually win big. the bouts that i lose are against the higher rated fencers. the thing is, i always keep the score close and match them touch for touch, like 11-11, 13-13. i always feel like i can win against them. unfortunately, when i get to this point, i usually don't score again and its like something in me "turns off" mentally. i don't think its nerves or just being content with putting up a good fight or what but i need to make the turn. how do i win these tough bouts?? how do get over this hump of shutting down mentally in the closing stages of a this type of bout and actually come away winning?? i think this is whats separating me from a C right now. does anyone else experience anything like this??

[drippingwet]

Yeah, I've been in the 'don't have the winning hit' situation before. I think maybe in my situation, it had a lot to to with lack of tactics, and even if I had known what to do, I'm not sure I would have had the technique to carry out the tactic. If you're confident and know the actiont that you want to perform, and can do that action well, then that can count for a lot.

So I think much of it is perhaps due simply to lack of knowledge/repertoire. Just make sure that you're getting good coaching, and lots of good sparring. Coaching is very important, and is possibly underestimated by some people who might think that they can learn from their sparring sessions, which they can, but there's lots of little nitty gritty technical issues that you need a coach for. Good for tactics too (although some tactics can be gotten from books - technique is harder in text form).

For instance, if you lost a bout 15-14 because you're opponent attacked on your preparation... at some time in your long history of getting coaching, you might have remembered about counter-time and on top of that, how to do counter-time. Or you might have decided to play it safe at 14-14, and go with your favourite thing, rather than producing something else which you suspect would work if you only knew how to do it.

So basically, get good 1:1 coaching. I get about 10 mins/week, plus an hour every two weeks. I think I might push this up as soon as I get a job (me student)!

[LUDICROUS]

Often when it gets to 4-4 or 14-14, I stop fencing and start to think !

Then I lose. Hmm.

[LordTofuDog-jnr]

I wouldn't do this unless you're REALLY good at it and have a high percentage of success with it but at 14-14 let the opponent get into a complex attack or march and hit them with an inquartata whilst retreating.

E.G - Counter-attack and twist your body out of the way. Just remember it's a VEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYY RISKY MOVE!

[Teme]

Ah, the dark realm of fencing psychology...

Basically you learn everything thrice: doing in a lesson, using in a free bout and scoring in a competition. Be it a simple technique, pre-build trap or jedi mind-trick -- it has to be trained and used with confidence. It all comes with experience, knowing your skills and trusting your skills.

When it's all for that one hit only, just drop all finesse, take the one thing you know you do well, the best one you have, and commit totally to it. No hesitation, no regrets.

[Alain]

Originally Posted by Teme

Ah, the dark realm of fencing psychology...

Basically you learn everything thrice: doing in a lesson, using in a free bout and scoring in a competition. Be it a simple technique, pre-build trap or jedi mind-trick -- it has to be trained and used with confidence. It all comes with experience, knowing your skills and trusting your skills.

When it's all for that one hit only, just drop all finesse, take the one thing you know you do well, the best one you have, and commit totally to it. No hesitation, no regrets.

I agree: against tougher opponent's, it is clear that psychology plays as big a part as tactics and technique. A good approach to these fights is to take them one hit at a time - this may sound silly, but you need to think "whatever happens, he's not going to hit me..." - keep your distance, stay focused, and make sure that you wait for the right moment to hit.
Throughout the match, forget what happened with the previous point, but rather what's happening now. A good thing to do in training is, instead of doing one match to 15 hits, you fence 15 matches of 1 hit - this should get you in the right frame of mind.

Best of luck

[oiuyt]

Not to mention that you've specified you have trouble towards the end of bouts against better opponents. Better opponents are those that have an additional gear to shift into when they need/want something extra to close you out. You fence all out for an entire bout, keep with a better fencer up to 11-11. Okay, now the opponent decides the bout's gone on long enough, upshifts and now there's an 11-15 score. Just because the bout wasn't a blow-out doesn't mean the loser had a chance.

It might be something in you that "turns off", or it could be something in your opponents that "turns on" (or, of course, a combination of both). This might be a flaw in how you approach the game and that you can fix (the approach you appear to be examining), or this could be a misappreciation for exactly how much better those "top guys" actually are when they're going all out.

-B :)

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by LordTofuDog-jnr

I wouldn't do this unless you're REALLY good at it and have a high percentage of success with it but at 14-14 let the opponent get into a complex attack or march and hit them with an inquartata whilst retreating.

E.G - Counter-attack and twist your body out of the way. Just remember it's a VEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYY RISKY MOVE!

That's a move that I want to do, but never will. It really takes balls to say "Okay, on this move, I'll either win it, or lose it. There's no other option". Actually, I recently did that in a la belle foil bout. I got the touch...it felt awesome.

[Fechter1]

What Brad (Oiuyt) said.
If you have the chance, have someone tape bouts for you. That way, if it happens again, you can go over it from a 3rd person perspective, and maybe see just how your and your opponent's demeanor/style/aggressiveness/intensity/etc. changed at that crucial point.

I've been doing it for a few years now, and it's helped my game quite a bit.

[esskreemr]

How often do you fence 15 point bouts? I've found one of the problems with our club members is that they are either messing around or fence 5 point bouts. They hardly ever fence 15 point bouts. Even relatively good fencers then go to a tournament and can't understand why they they can't keep focused in a 15 point bout.

Train for the game.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Like peter pan. Do a very suprising aerial move, like, jump up in the air, ultra high, and hit them.... they usually dont see it coming, and at 14-14, you need the element of suprise, because at that point, your enemy knows everything about you.

[Alain]

A couple of good points have been raised above...

1) It's always good to look at videos of yourself fence. Actually, it's a horrifying experience: normally, you see a fatter and more stupid version of yourself bumble up and down the piste, in a way that you'd never do yourself... nonetheless, it allows you a perspective between your own mental image of how you fence in comparison to a third-person perspective of what really happens This should help you see the areas of your game that need most attention.

2) Mr/Mrs/Miss esskreemr raised a very good point, too. There's always the saying that "hard practice makes war easy", er, or something like that... Anyway, the moral is that (,if you're serious about competitions,) you should always train towards what you need to achieve.
In France, for example, I know that in a lot of clubs people just do freeplay for a while, and then do a (scored) match 'til 5 or 15 hits. This is good, in that by the time you fence properly, you're tired and have to go into autopilot for the last few hits...
At my club (Reading Fencing Club, in England), people often do fights to 15 hits where possible. If it's busy, though, fights are kept shorter but more regular (with a queuing system in place). There are also a good number of games you can play in training that add variety and a little training to your fights:
- As already mentioned, you can fence 15 matches of 1 hit (instead of 1 match of 15 hits),
- You can fence with a system of priority (like in badminton or squash). So, need to have 'advantage' in order to score a point. You start at 0-0, no priority, and you make the first (single) hit - your hit doesn't count, but you get advantage. With advantage: if you mark another (single) hit, you score a point; if your opponent scores a single hit, they receive advantage (but do not score); and, if there is a double hit (in épée), the person with advantage scores a point, then advantage is annulled.
- In épée, one slightly bizarre thing you can do is "target-fencing": in order to win a match to 5 hits, you must make one hit to: foot, leg, hand/wrist, arm, and body/mask. Once you've hit a target, if you hit it again it doesn't count. Okay, this doesn't help much with the question you asked, but it's pretty good fun...
- One other thing you can do is 'wheelchair' fencing: if you and your sworn enemy sit down on the floor, with the soles of your feet touching - say that hits below the waist don't count - and then fence! Apart from being a laugh, it's also good practice for close-quarter fencing.
- Apart from all this, my club runs monthly competition nights - have a look at http://www.readingfencingclub.net/do...%20Trophy.html - which I think add a little edge to the training of more experienced fencers, whilst giving novice fencers a sneak peek at what's to come.

Sorry for babbling, I hope this helps...

[VELISARIOS]

First of all, if the score goes to 12-12 or something, you must...relax and think (quick).Dont do the same action if you see your oponent that react correct on your attacks. And above all hear what your coah said.