Tapping the blade

[drippingwet]

Why is this done e.g. something seems wrong with the electrics and so the blade is tapped on the floor?

[CvilleFencer]

Usually done to free stuck springs in foil. This can help fix persistent off targets due to a stuck tip, free a snagged spring so a weapon will pass weight, and a few other claims of dubious benefit. For epee it is much the same. I have seen some saber fencers tap the floor with their tip every time they come on guard, almost like a fencing genuflect! I think that is just saber fencers being weird, not done with any real purpose in mind.

[Purple Fencer]

If the tapping is by placing the blade on the floor, stepping on it about midway, then pulling up on the tip end snapping it against the ground, that's usually to reset the spring properly...not touching the inside of the barrel (grounds out your shots).

Then there are those who fling the blade over their shoulder to hit the bottom of an upraised shoe...beginners are easily freaked when they see this kind of accuracy...doesn;t affect me, tho...I generally KNOW those gus are going to cream me!

[noodle]

people also hit the floor occasionally to quickly test their tip themselves. not a good idea, as if they find a problem and the ref can't reproduce it, its not a valid 'test'

[Army Fencer]

Originally Posted by noodle

people also hit the floor occasionally to quickly test their tip themselves. not a good idea, as if they find a problem and the ref can't reproduce it, its not a valid 'test'

Not true. You can tap it lightly on the ground without being penalized.

[noodle]

i didn't say penalized.
what i said was the fact that if i tap my weapon, say epee, on the ground and it does not go off, but i subsequently present it to the ref to test it and it shows no problems (say, because i fixed it when tapping it on the ground), no points are nullified. my point is that its a bad idea because if you think the tip isn't working, you should present it to the ref for testing immediately instead of testing it yourself.

[Army Fencer]

I repeat what I said before. That is not true. If you test your tip lightly on the ground and realize that it doesn't work, you can still have the director test it, and have the touch anulled.

[Army Fencer]

And if the USFA website was working, I'd cite the chapter and verse.

[noodle]

yes you can have them test it and if it fails their test it fails
but what i'm saying is that a self test is not good enough, it also has to fail for the director. if it does not fail for the test the director applies, it can't be annulled.

[pgepps]

His point is that if you have an intermittent fault, and your quick floor test shows you the fault but then also corrects it, then the ref's test won't show the fault. Better to take the tip to the ref first, to improve your odds of getting the point.

Of course, a lot of us have so much to work on, there's no point stressing out over the probability of getting this or that annulment. Still, if you're actually in a close match and suspect that an up-to-now good weapon has developed a fault, then you'd want to know that.

[The Armourer]

Noodle is right on this - always present the blade to the ref first any tapping before this by you will lead to any hit that was questioned being called 'valid'. As far as epee is concerned you just should not do this tapping malarky it will wreck your point. Foil I believe is ok - but to my mind if anything is sticking your going to loose confidence in your weapon and this wont help you win.

[Army Fencer]

If you are lightly tapping your weapon on the ground, you are in no way "changing anything whatever of the equipment in use." (t.68 (b)).

On the other hand, if you hit the tap forcefully against the ground and cause it to stick--that's another matter. Likewise, if you grab your tip in your hand and test it with your thumb, you could be tightening/untightening your tip, and it is conceivible that you could be altering your weapon.

You can disagree, and that's fine, but there's enough ambiguity in the rules that I feel comfortable tapping my blade lightly on the ground if I'm not sure about my weapon.

[Army Fencer]

It turns out, I can read a lot better when I'm awake...

Noodle, I see what you're trying to say. I was trying argue against a common misconception that if you test your tip yourself by tapping it against the floor, you lose the your right to have the touch anulled (though there's enough ambiguity in the rules that you could take it either way).

Now to the point you're making: I don't think that tapping the blade on the ground will change whether or not a weapon is intermittent. And if the weapon is intermittent, there's a chance either way that the weapon will register in the director's hand.

On the other hand, if the weapon is working perfectly or outright not working (which is the majority of the cases), tapping the ground won't change that either.

[The Armourer]

But the fact is the director should not touch your blade once you have 'interfered' with it. So any point will not be anulled.

[Army Fencer]

Originally Posted by The Armourer

But the fact is the director should not touch your blade once you have 'interfered' with it. So any point will not be anulled.

If a fencer lightly taps their blade on the ground, they are not "changing anything whatever of the equipment in use." t.68(b). If a fencer rigged something up before the bout, the tip would have received more abuse just fencing with it.

On the other hand, if a fencer forcefully hits the ground in order to make the tip stick, then they are altering their equipment. Likewise, if a fencer raises their tip and checks it with their hand, the fencer may or may not have tightened or untightened their barrel--there is enough doubt to consider that the fencer may have done something unscrupulous.

Like I said, there is enough ambiguity that you could take the rule either way, however, I feel comfortable enough within the limits of the rules to test my tip before presenting it.

[Alain]

Originally Posted by drippingwet

Why is this done e.g. something seems wrong with the electrics and so the blade is tapped on the floor?

Er, it depends...

Épée: NEVER do this. Maybe, perhaps, only if... you need to get out a grub screw that's not keen on leaving its home. Otherwise, doing this is bad, and you should feel ashamed

Foil: Perhaps the point is sticky (white light keeps on coming up, with that annoying 'beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee p' noise. A good WHACK might help to get it working again

Sabre: there's not a valid reason for this; try your opponents head instead...

[wbowman]

I think technically, the test of a possibly-bad weapon just needs to be carried out under the "supervision" of the referee. So if you do it yourself and the ref happened to be watching and was confident you hadn't done anything underhanded, in theory he/she COULD nullify the touch. Pretty much the ref's discretion, though, so as a practical matter it IS best to let the referee do the testing before you mess with anything.