Any USFCA certified instructors on this board ?

[striker]

This should be the first in the history of fencing.net. I posted the
following thread with over seventy views and not a single reply.
http://www.fencing101.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14545

However, I did find the following thread with some good information
about the process of getting certified.
http://www.fencing101.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13594

Are there any USFCA certified instructors on this board who would like to
comment in "general terms" about their own certification experience ?

[Victor]

Present? yes.
Like to comment? eh...

[mrbiggs]

What's the USFCA? Is it classical fencing?

[keith]

http://www.usfca.org/usfca/

they train and accredit coaches, mileage on coaches training seems to vary by locale though.

The other training is via the USFA coaches college that runs in the summer as a one week course - these are different exams/certificates.

So a USFCA and USFA trained coach have different certificates. We have yet to get a real breakdown on any actual differences in coaching methodology promoted by the two organisations.

[oiuyt]

http://www.usfca.org/usfca/

they train and accredit coaches, mileage on coaches training seems to vary by locale though.

The other training is via the USFA coaches college that runs in the summer as a one week course - these are different exams/certificates.

So a USFCA and USFA trained coach have different certificates. We have yet to get a real breakdown on any actual differences in coaching methodology promoted by the two organisations.

That's because the USFCA doesn't have a unified coaching methodology. They don't have systematic training. You have to be able to demonstrate an ability to teach, but how you teach isn't specified. The USFCA expects coaches to use a wide variety of training sources to develop themselves as coaches. Because of this different coaches will have vastly different styles.

Coaches College, on the other hand, will teach a group of coaches together and uses the same manuals (updated periodically) in successive years. The instructors have a great deal of continuity, which means that if you took Foil 1 with Alex Beguinet in 2003 you saw very similar material to what I did when I took it with him in 2001. The cueing, etc. should show some consistency year-to-year. Which is certainly not to say that they churn out identical coaches. Everyone has their spin on what they learn from the experience and what they end up using in their own coaching.

At higher levels the Coaches College material is also strongly influenced by who is teaching the course and what s/he brings to it. Lots of the upper level (level 3 and 4) material is from what the instructor has found works when devloping his/her students both over his/her career and in the recent past. Of course this relies on having instructors who are well in tune with what should be taught and what goes on at higher levels. Michael Marx and Gary Copeland certainly qualify. If Kelly Williams teaches the sabre 3 course this coming summer she certainly qualifies. Ro Sobelvarro, who made a special guest appearance as the level 3 epee instructor when I took it in 2003 certainly qualifies. The rest of the staff, Alex Beguinet, Andrea Lagan, Zoila Palacio, Ed Richards, and Abdel Salem all certainly qualify. Everyone on staff at Coaches College is very good at what they do. They know how to teach fencing and they know how to teach how to teach fencing (meta-teach fencing?).

Coaches College has a methodology. USFCA training is more "do it on your own, we'll test you and certify the results if appropriate", which doesn't have as distinct a personality. That said, general sense is that Coaches College is very much current, "here's what's working on the strip NOW, what has been growing in influence the past couple of seasons, and where we see fencing evolving in the next couple of seasons", while the USFCA has distinct leanings towards a more classicist flavor (not classical by any means and there are some coaches very involved with the USFCA leadership that are every bit as current as you could hope for).

As far as I can tell there's a similar situation in Britain between the BFA and the BAF.

One thing to note about Coaches College is that the different levels have different aims. Level 1 is designed to teach newish coaches how to teach beginners. Level 2 teaches experienced coaches how to teach intermediate fencers. Levels 3 and 4 teach experienced coaches how to teach advanced fencers. The feel of a level 3 class is VERY different than a level 1 class. Not only is the material presented differently and the intended student different, the members of the class are a different type of coach.

Comparing Coaches College vs. USFCA is hard to do. They are different approaches to coach training and certification.

-B :)

[keith]

thanks,

now we do.

[striker]

Coaches College, on the other hand, will teach a group of coaches together and uses the same manuals (updated periodically) in successive years.

A very informative post. Thanks. It seems to me that USFCA
does not have a "standard coaching manual" or "coaching books"
that one can refer to and study for the written part of the exam.
However, USFCA does have a detailed certification "guideline" published on
their web site which tells a candidate what he is expected to know.
That I believe is one difference between the USFCA and USFA Coaches
College approach. Also, I see a unique advantage to the USFCA
certification. The USFCA certification seems to be approved by both
FIE and AAI which to me it says - This certification has value worldwide.

After reading this post, I think taking the USFA Coaches College
classes might be a good way to prepare for the USFCA certification also.

By the way, has anyone taken the classes in the Pan American Fencing
in San Antonio Texas ? If you have, I appreciate if you could share
your experience.

[Tiwaz]

"As far as I can tell there's a similar situation in Britain between the BFA and the BAF."


The BFA and BAF arguing about coaching surely not im shocked truly shocked that anyone could think that of these two shining example of cooperation amoung fencing community.

[neevel]

A very informative post. Thanks. It seems to me that USFCA
does not have a "standard coaching manual" or "coaching books"
that one can refer to and study for the written part of the exam.
However, USFCA does have a detailed certification "guideline" published on
their web site which tells a candidate what he is expected to know.
That I believe is one difference between the USFCA and USFA Coaches
College approach. Also, I see a unique advantage to the USFCA
certification. The USFCA certification seems to be approved by both
FIE and AAI which to me it says - This certification has value worldwide.

After reading this post, I think taking the USFA Coaches College
classes might be a good way to prepare for the USFCA certification also.

That last point is a good one for all to remember-- Coaches College and the USFCA are not mutually exclusive programs. Coaches College does provide a focused setting in which to learn, with a clear methodology. The problem is, it requires a committment to a substantial chunk of time which many people with full-time day jobs & limited vacation time simply aren't able to make. Since the USFCA has a set of certification requirements but not a defined course of study, it gives people a good deal more flexibility in how they go about acquiring the knowledge and skills needed to pass those certifications. If you can attend the USFA Coaches College, that's one route. The other is to work with certified coaches in your area (which is often easier to fit into a real-world schedule for most people). Whether this "apprenticing" approach is as good as or better than Coaches College is going to be strongly dependent on who's available in your area to work with. There are USFCA Masters who are highly competent, up-to-date coaches and good teachers, but there are also some ossified, "Fencing is going down the toilet and taking Western Civilization down with it, g*d*mn whippersnappers" curmudgeons (witness the "women's sabre is unnatural" letter in America Fencing last year).

Another analogy (not a perfect one, though) would be to think of Coaches College as a law school, and the USFCA's certification system as the State Bar exam.

-Dave

[oso97]

I myself am USFACA-certified at the Moniteur level in all three weapons. I've pursued coaching instruction through the PAFA in San Antonio, and by working as an "apprentice" for several different coaches in my area. I've also developed contacts with Fencing Masters in my area that I often go to when I have a questions on the various aspects of teaching fencing, from how to teach a specific move to to how to structure a youth afterschool program. The preparation for the certification exam was not something that I took lightly. While not being overly difficult, it still required me to present a wide range of knowledge and be comfortable with teaching a diverse array of actions in addition to being able to discourse on why certain things are important and presented the way I chose to present them. I also know that in order to sucessfully pass the next level, I am going to need to spend some time working and studying specifically preparing for it. I don't feel its anything I can't do, and I know that the preparation I do for the next level will make me a better coach.

I would like to attend USFA Coach's College, but haven't been able to afford that much of a chunk of time. I'm not yet a professional coach, and still have another job, in addition to a family! I'm sure that I would benefit from the instruction there, given what I've heard from people who've attended.

Given all that, I think my certification from the USFCA is a valid one. It helps with marketing (no small factor - attracting students is an important consideration!) and helps present me with a clear outlines of things I need to learn and be able to demonstrate for the next level. I think I get a lot out of it, because I put a lot into it. I suspect the same would be true for USFA Coach's College.

I'd encourage any coach to pursue USFCA Certification, regardless of weather or not they have attended USFA Coach's College. I know several people who have done both. Just going through the certification exam, I learned several valuable things about coaching.