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sreckiki · 12-04-2004, 10:05 AM

... is not a new one.

Roch has been re-elected. 78 votes for him against 30.

I didn't see anything here on Fencing.net so I've posted the info.

JackSparrow · 12-04-2004, 10:56 AM

No way! I'm rapidly losing faith in democracy. How could anyone think that he's done a good job? Unbelievable.

MikeHarm · 12-04-2004, 11:35 AM

I think he's done a great job and am glad he won. The US won a gold medal in the olympics under Roch. He took a stand against corrupt directing and actually did something about it at the olympics instead of just letting it go or pretending everyone didn't see what they saw. I also like what he's doing with the scoring machine timing to improve the game as well, though I'm sure we'll have some refinements like Edew suggests to make it work more smoothly.

glowstix · 12-04-2004, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

He took a stand against corrupt directing and actually did something about it at the olympics instead of just letting it go or pretending everyone didn't see what they saw.

more like scapegoat and in my opinion, unjustified. officials make mistakes in all sports all the time. the other official in that match made mistakes too. when do you see an official in another sport accuse an athlete of faking an injury??

sorry, this wasn't really intended to change the subject as that particular thread died a long time ago.

MikeHarm · 12-04-2004, 02:25 PM

Your spin on it would be a lot easier to buy if the matches weren't videotaped.

whtouche · 12-04-2004, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

I think he's done a great job and am glad he won. The US won a gold medal in the olympics under Roch. He took a stand against corrupt directing and actually did something about it at the olympics instead of just letting it go or pretending everyone didn't see what they saw. I also like what he's doing with the scoring machine timing to improve the game as well, though I'm sure we'll have some refinements like Edew suggests to make it work more smoothly.

Um
Out of curiousity, because you've mentioned it a couple of times now, what exact role did he have in the US winning medals at the olympics?
I mean, W. Bush is president, and the US won medals. That doesn't mean you can say "The US won medals under W. Bush".
I think you're confused.

You also alluded earlier to rules that gave the US a benefit, in another thread I think. What were you talking about?

glowstix · 12-04-2004, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

Your spin on it would be a lot easier to buy if the matches weren't videotaped.

you said it, videotaped, which implies slow motion replays which these officials don't have the luxury of at the times in question. people make mistakes. i've watched it over 50 times now. so much so, i'm learning italian. i can even identify 1 or 2 that went in the way of the chinese that were questionable. some of the 6 of the calls that everyone keeps mentioning weren't even obvious, some were borderline.

all i'm saying is that you don't see other sports governing bodies doing that to their officials. there are worst officials out there in other sports than mr. hidasi.

MikeHarm · 12-04-2004, 05:48 PM

For sabre, off target light being gone means less double lights. Working on making the whipover touches less frequent, means more single lights. Eliminating the fleche attack means less double lights.

The more single lights, the less ROW calls could alter the outcome.

You could say we won medals under Bush if he increased funding and support for the olympic athlete's training and development. I haven't heard anything like that though.

I may be confused, but I'm still glad both were reelected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whtouche

Um
Out of curiousity, because you've mentioned it a couple of times now, what exact role did he have in the US winning medals at the olympics?
I mean, W. Bush is president, and the US won medals. That doesn't mean you can say "The US won medals under W. Bush".
I think you're confused.

You also alluded earlier to rules that gave the US a benefit, in another thread I think. What were you talking about?

esskreemr · 12-04-2004, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whtouche

Um
Out of curiousity, because you've mentioned it a couple of times now, what exact role did he have in the US winning medals at the olympics?

I wonder who "convinced" the Nigerian Sport Federation that sending a qualifying athlete to the Olympics would be too expensive? I doubt that it was Bush.

Repechage · 12-04-2004, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

He took a stand against corrupt directing and actually did something about it at the olympics instead of just letting it go or pretending everyone didn't see what they saw.

From people who were there . . . the referee in question knew his calls were becoming unreliable and asked to be relieved. His request was refused. Then he was pilloried. Sounds like some nasty politics, not white knight stuff.

mrbiggs · 12-04-2004, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

For sabre, off target light being gone means less double lights. Working on making the whipover touches less frequent, means more single lights. Eliminating the fleche attack means less double lights.

Those are true, but I'm not sure that Roch himself is necessaruly personally responsible for those changes. Electric sabre doesn't work with off-targets. The elimination of the fleche was to get rid of priority, and almost definately had to be included in sabre eventually.

But I'm glad he was reelected, because I like the direction he's taking foil in.

sabreman · 12-05-2004, 12:57 PM

Also most of the major fencing nations (Russia, Italy, Germany, ...) were against the addition of women's sabre at 2004 Olympics. The US pushed hard to get it included which paid off big time but I have no idea of Roch's part. I think the US was able to secure the votes of the non power federations to get it in. Maybe he had some role in that?

JackSparrow · 12-05-2004, 02:48 PM

Why were they against it? Did they think there was already too much fencing going on as it is?

bg0687 · 12-05-2004, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackSparrow

Why were they against it? Did they think there was already too much fencing going on as it is?

Maybe they realized that their female saberists were not up to their usual competitive standards. They also may not have wanted to see the US run away with some medals in the Olympics. Remember that for years these nations have mocked the US Fencing Team as a joke.

Kat · 12-05-2004, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bg0687

Maybe they realized that their female saberists were not up to their usual competitive standards. They also may not have wanted to see the US run away with some medals in the Olympics. Remember that for years these nations have mocked the US Fencing Team as a joke.

I'm sure it was more the case that they didn't want to sacrifice other events for the inclusion of women's sabre, such as women's team foil.

Black Jeebus · 12-06-2004, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bg0687

Maybe they realized that their female saberists were not up to their usual competitive standards. They also may not have wanted to see the US run away with some medals in the Olympics. Remember that for years these nations have mocked the US Fencing Team as a joke.

I'd bet you're right about that one.

rory · 12-06-2004, 05:41 AM

Or possibly it's the fact that womens' sabre is less mature than the other weapons, and sacrificing another weapon just to fit it in seemed unfair.

Contrary to what some of the other posts above seem to be suggesting, Europeans don't hate the USA: we just think your president's psychotic and your foreign policy sucks.

sreckiki · 12-06-2004, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rory

Or possibly it's the fact that womens' sabre is less mature than the other weapons, and sacrificing another weapon just to fit it in seemed unfair.

Contrary to what some of the other posts above seem to be suggesting, Europeans don't hate the USA: we just think your president's psychotic and your foreign policy sucks.

Finally, someone who has an unbiased view... Thanks, rory.

esskreemr · 12-06-2004, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rory

Or possibly it's the fact that womens' sabre is less mature than the other weapons, and sacrificing another weapon just to fit it in seemed unfair.

I think all the individual weapons should be included. The team events are just gravy. They should not have selected randomly like they initially did, it should have been voted on.

CvilleFencer · 12-06-2004, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rory

Contrary to what some of the other posts above seem to be suggesting, Europeans don't hate the USA: we just think your president's psychotic and your foreign policy sucks.

If it makes you feel any better, most of the US does not hate Europeans (well, maybe France

) and 24% of us think the president is an idiot and his foriegn policy sucks. Unfourtunetly something like 50% are to lazy to get out and vote! No more New Englanders for president is my solution. Especially if they think that buying a ranch makes them a Texan.