2004 Men's Team Foil Final

[esskreemr]

I was just watching the other day. I found it interesting that Vanni or Cassara went down and stayed down. In many other sports, an athletic trainer would have rushed out to examine potential injury. In this case, it looked like an FIE official (no voice just gesturing) was basically telling him to get up and keep fencing.

Percieved Injury evaluation from gestures:
FIE Official: "Get up, c'mon. You're not hurt. Stop stalling. You keep fencing, quit whining. Are you little baby? There's nothing wrong with you..."

Is this typical? I understand it may have been a stalling tactic, still...

In addition, I could see why the ref was suspended. In cases where there were two lights, the Italian's reputation definitely preceded them. I saw many instances where two lights went in favor of the Italian fencer, even though it was very clear he was pulling his arm back during the action.

[drippingwet]

Are the Olympic bouts on the market?

[Craig]

Are the Olympic bouts on the market?

Not unless NBC has released something.

[drippingwet]

Are they gonna release something? Didn't fencing footage have their own guys out there?

[ChubbyHubby]

Are they gonna release something? Didn't fencing footage have their own guys out there?

Nope. Even if FFootage were there I think I read somewhere anything filmed there by anyone technically belongs to the IOC, ie. they can't sell it.

But have a look at this thread anyway:

http://fencingforum.com/forum/showth...&threadid=2967

[peet]

I was just watching the other day. I found it interesting that Vanni or Cassara went down and stayed down. In many other sports, an athletic trainer would have rushed out to examine potential injury. In this case, it looked like an FIE official (no voice just gesturing) was basically telling him to get up and keep fencing.

Percieved Injury evaluation from gestures:
FIE Official: "Get up, c'mon. You're not hurt. Stop stalling. You keep fencing, quit whining. Are you little baby? There's nothing wrong with you..."

Is this typical? I understand it may have been a stalling tactic, still...
.

According to my recollection from watching the live feed (i don't have the video in front of me, so you'll have to check me on it), the ref called over the FIE doctor (or whomever is the official medical guy). The doc looked at him, and could not verify an actual injury, so therefore the call was made (2nd group offence, IIRC: "Interruption of bout for claimed injury not confirmed by doctor").

I'm guessing the ref knew of the Italians' tactics (antics?) ahead of time, and got the doc on it right away to head off stalling.

To answer your question, no, it's not often that a ref penalizes a fencer for "injury not confirmed by doctor", but it certainly is within the rules. The rules are there for a reason, after all (to prevent stalling, in this case), and if no-one ever enforces them, what good are they?

-p

[edew]

I'm working on it. Or rather, I have a friend working on it. It's a bit convoluted Rube Goldbergian way to make the DVDs. Sabreur sent me the DVDs a while ago.

Since then, I've looked over some of them, but have only one of them mastered into NTSC format. That disk is the Men's Foil preliminary portion (to make the top-16 or top-8). There are four bouts in that one: Cassara vs Tiomkin, Bissdorf vs Ganeev, Joppich vs Choi, and Joppich vs Guyart.

My friend is rather busy. I can also try to make the duping (and format change), but I don't have the hardware (namely, a digital camera to record from a multiformat DVD player, and send the information onto a computer harddrive for storage and then burn from that image on the harddrive, after making some indexing and editing).

As for the falling down, I don't recall them being down for any extensive amount of time. Your typical fall and slow-to-get-up response, which I can see is perfectly justifiable.

[mrbiggs]

Cowpaste gave me some footage, including women's, but not men's, foil. (It's also got epee). I'll give it to someone, or cowpaste can, if he's willing.

[cowpaste]

I'm willing to share the videos I have with anybody who has broadband. I am desperately looking for Men's Foil fencing though, since I am closer to being male than female.

[JEC]

I have burned two discs: Men's Foil Team and Individual. Before this current trip, I decoded Men's Epee individual, Men's Saber Team, Women's Saber Individual, Women's Epee Team. There are problems with the decoding. I need to check the footage and correct some frames. It not just pushing a button.

[cowpaste]

Must it be done on DVD? Why can't the original recordings just be passed around?

[edew]

The original recordings, as I have them are on DVDs, in PAL format. They can be seen on a computer's DVD reader, because the frame refresh process on a computer is different from a televisions, but you can't see that DVD on your set-top player and TV set.

[JEC]

Not in every computer either. You need to have the codec to read PAL format.

[esskreemr]

As for the falling down, I don't recall them being down for any extensive amount of time. Your typical fall and slow-to-get-up response, which I can see is perfectly justifiable.

I'll take another look. Probably a couple But, he was down for a couple of minutes. It looked to me like he got a zinger to the hip flexor region. Didn't look like much of a medical examination. Of course, he fell like 3-4 times throughout the bout.