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Bokken · 11-22-2004, 08:57 AM

Hopefully this isn't beating a dead horse, but has anyone heard anything from Santelli in the past month?

My reason for asking, before anyone starts threatening libel, is this: Goucher College, of whose club I am coach, has filed a formal complaint with the New Jersey Better Business Bureau against Santelli USA. The check from the Comptroller's Office of the College we sent Santelli to pay for our order was cashed on 5 Oct 2004 but no merchandise was ever sent. Subsequent emails (after the website was changed and the phones were disconnected) have gone unanswered and the most recent email was returned to the club president as undeliverable, as gsantelli@aol.com apparently doesn't exist anymore.

I'm not looking to stir trouble or cause a flamewar, but I am wondering if anyone else has taken similar steps, heard anything verifiable from Santelli, knows if there's a person who is making good on Santelli's business obligations, etc.

Thanks!

Spike327 · 11-22-2004, 11:57 AM

I haven't done business with Santelli in a long time (not for any negative reason), but uh, please let me say that that sucks very much.

Victor · 11-22-2004, 12:05 PM

The BBB, although it sounds dangerously official and important, doesn't have a testicle to demand anything. The agency accepts complaints (yawn) so that other people can ask, "Hey, did someone else complain, too?" And that's about it. Remember, the agency's keywords are "voluntary self-regulation and consumer education."

You want formal action? Contact your state attorney general office. At the very least you can pester them for some suggestions.

sabersaber · 11-22-2004, 12:06 PM

Well that is really sad. We have been doing biz w/Santelli for years. Frankly they make the best saber lame for tropical climates - never goes green, no dead spots. I am so SAD to hear this.

sabersaber · 11-22-2004, 12:09 PM

P.S. Andrea Santelli lives in New Jersey and was running the o peration.

HDG · 11-22-2004, 06:58 PM

Bokken,
I hate to see fencers harmed by this situation. But at the same time, I'd hate to see any of us do anything that might aggravate the situation further (this is NOT any kind of accusation, PLEASE don't construe it as one).

I'd imagine someone from Santelli checks out these boards now and then, so hopefully seeing your post will prompt them to get in touch with you (unless for legal reasons they are estopped from doing so... I'm not going to speculate). You are obviously owed an explanation, and either the fulfillment of your order, or a refund, but there may be factors making either temporarily impossible (not going to speculate). I don't know how long I would wait in your position before taking some sort of legal action; I hope it won't need to come to that. Maybe Goucher's legal counsel has the clout to find out what's going on?

PS Went to grad school a couple blocks down Charles St. from you; I miss Balmer.

rsy · 11-22-2004, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bokken

Hopefully this isn't beating a dead horse, but has anyone heard anything from Santelli in the past month?

Bokken,

This was posted a month ago on the NJ Division message board. Contacting the BBB does nothing for you, and if there isn't anyone receiving phone calls, emails or opening the mail, then trying to communicate isn't going to get any results either.

-r

Quote:

From: Blackie 63 <RABlack@1...>
Date: Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:33 am
Subject: Re: [NJUSFA] Santelli

Santelli has not 'shut down' as erroneously alleged by the uninformed. Exactly as stated, orders temporarily cannot be taken. There is a dispute with the landlord that has caused an unexpected, capricious disruption of operations. The landlord also, apparently without proper legal authority, has shut off the phones.

As soon as any accurate information is known about the matter, it will be posted. Anyone discussing Santelli is cautioned about passing erroneous information or discussing matters in a manner that could transgress New Jersey's 'commercial slander' laws. Evidently, part of the dispute may stem from such utterances by individuals publicly and now such has become a matter of concern being watched closely.

One can definitely contact Santelli via U.S. Mails, which are not delivered to the building but picked up by Santelli staff. Given the current situation, it is suggested this may be the best way to contact them. Because of lack of access to business records, etc., answers about orders placed, shipments, etc., cannot be handled, per the owners.

Anyone taking lessons, group or individual, should have been notified by the head coach, so long as an accurate telephone number was on record in the membership notebook. The coach is attempting to set up alternate means for fencers to continue lessons but does not yet have answers on that.

The owners' express their sincerest regrets about the inconvenience this has caused to many. They ask forbearance while matters get sorted out.

I am posting this at the owners' request and am only a messenger. Any replies to this or further queries about the matter directed to me will be ignored as I have no 'standing' in the matter and I am not an employee of the company. Furthermore, the NJUSFA website, as an open public website, is not an appropriate forum for discussing this.

I am serving as a point of contact only for fellow fencing members of the salle (these people know how to reach me) and for NJD own official interests which may arise. Sorry to have to inform of the above, but that's how things stand at this time.

ROB BLACK

MikeHarm · 11-22-2004, 08:50 PM

I'd go straight to small claims court if it was me. They can't avoid a court summons.

Purple Fencer · 11-22-2004, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

I'd go straight to small claims court if it was me. They can't avoid a court summons.

iIf they can even be served. If there's no one there of legal age to receive service (either a named defendant or someone to sub-serve on). Don't know if New Jersey law allows for service by publication in the papers like California does...a little drastic in any case.

HDG · 11-22-2004, 09:08 PM

Has anyone tried writing to them as Mr. Black suggested?

" One can definitely contact Santelli via U.S. Mails, which are not delivered to the building but picked up by Santelli staff. Given the current situation, it is suggested this may be the best way to contact them. Because of lack of access to business records, etc., answers about orders placed, shipments, etc., cannot be handled, per the owners"

From his second quoted sentence I assume that this won't resolve Bokken's issues, but if they get a registered or certified letter maybe they'll at least acknowledge your situation, and provide some idea of what's what.

MikeHarm · 11-22-2004, 11:03 PM

HDG,

If they can't even keep an AOL email address going, thats a red flag if there ever was one.

HDG · 11-23-2004, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

HDG,

If they can't even keep an AOL email address going, thats a red flag if there ever was one.

I'm probably just in denial.

Epictetus · 11-23-2004, 03:33 AM

Don't really have anything to say about Santelli, never ordering anything from them. However, just wanted to say hello to a fellow Marylander. Go Goucher, your team is awesome! Always one of the classiest teams around. Were you at the CBC fencathon earlier this year? That was my first tournament, and I learned a lot from your epee fencers. So yeah, topic derail over, just wanted to say hello.

Oscar Sinclair
St. Mary's College

Bokken · 11-23-2004, 08:55 AM

Well, the officers of the club and I need to consult on how we want to proceed, but the small claims court sounds like a good last option. Regardless, we'll be speaking with Goucher's legal council to examine other options.
I'd prefer to have things stay out of court, but if that's the only way we're going to get our gear that's how we'll do it.

I'd be significantly more understanding if there was more information forthcoming, like "we were attacked by Red Lectroids from the 8th Dimension, but we'll be sending out orders as soon as YoyoDyne Industries fixes our warehouse."
Yes, yes, I know that's an absurd example taken from a movie, but I certainly wouldn't want to run afoul of Jersey's libel and slander laws now would I?

Derail: Oscar: Pleased to make your acquaintance. No, I wasn't able to make that one but I will be at UMBC's meet on Dec. 5th. I'm not hard to miss, I'm the 'old guy' that looks like Robin Williams with a beard.

MikeHarm · 11-23-2004, 10:17 AM

You could also try putting a lein against them as a way of protecting your interests until they fullfill or repay you.

If they are mysteriously absent on the attempts for the court summons, they might not show up to dispute the lein attempt which would give you an edge.

rsy · 11-23-2004, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

You could also try putting a lein against them as a way of protecting your interests until they fullfill or repay you.

If they are mysteriously absent on the attempts for the court summons, they might not show up to dispute the lein attempt which would give you an edge.

Mike,

In order to get a lien, you first have to find something of value to get a lien against, and it also has to be free of prior liens. Unfortunately, when things go bad, free assets are the first things to go and that is normally long before the doors get locked and the lights get turned off.

-r

MikeHarm · 11-23-2004, 11:17 PM

Right, but it doesn't hurt giving it a whirl. And if you have a lien you could sell it to someone else to collect on if its taking too long to collect who is more persuasive and make at least some of the cash back.

HDG · 12-02-2004, 04:10 PM

Just made my weekly visit to their website (I'm still pulling for them), but their message is no longer up. I now just get a generic denial of access message from their server...

Purple Fencer · 12-02-2004, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDG

Just made my weekly visit to their website (I'm still pulling for them), but their message is no longer up. I now just get a generic denial of access message from their server...

Wow....NOT a good sign...

B-Pa · 12-02-2004, 05:19 PM

They've been dumping inventory on ebay. At least I'm pretty sure it's them. As a long time customer of Santelli I recognize a lot of the items. When I first noticed the listings a couple of months ago it was pages and pages of stuff, now it's down to just a couple of pages.