Santelli update?

[tsalyards]

FYI, levying an addtional surcharge for credit card orders is also illegal.

[CvilleFencer]

Whaa? Please elaborate! I have never heard that one before, and it would seem that Paypal and a fair number of merchants that us Ebay, GunBroker.com and others do this? Maybe a state law that does not apply to E-commerce? I would love to know more!

[Illini5596]

FYI, levying an addtional surcharge for credit card orders is also illegal.

No it isn't, it's actually quite common and quite legal.

[oiuyt]

It nearly always violates the agreement that the merchant signs with the credit card companies.

PayPal does NOT add a surcharge. What they do is if your account is entitled to accept credit card payments it's a different category of account ("premium" or whatever), at which point they skim a bit off of EVERY deposit, whether funded by credit card or not (or at least that was my understanding last time I read through their boilerplate).

It's illegal in reference to not allowed by signed agreement rather than illegal in reference to violates state or federal laws. Adding such a surcharge results in being in violation of contract. Likewise, minimums to accept a credit card is a VERY common, yet generally disallowed practice. Just because it's common doesn't mean that the people doing it aren't violating their contracts.

Are there some merchants which don't have those provisions in their agreements? Possibly. The one time I was involved with a company setting up a merchant account those provisions were highlighted as things that we needed to follow and that absolutely were inflexible requirements if we wanted to be able to accept credit card payments.

-B :)

[foilz]

Does anyone have any recommendations as to where to buy equipment? Throughout my entire career I've purchased from Santelli (and been very happy with the quality of their equipment), now that they've disappeared I can't say I have much experience with other suppliers. I'd be much obliged if some of you could let me know which dealers you've had a good experience with, and who seems to sell the best quality equipment.

You really should look at Leon Paul USA. It's first class. They offer a complete selection that includes FIE as well as club-level gear. They promise four-day delivery that actually works. Prices may be higher than low-price vendors, but you will never doubt your decision to choose the right stuff.

[Schiavona]

Whaa? Please elaborate! I have never heard that one before, and it would seem that Paypal and a fair number of merchants that us Ebay, GunBroker.com and others do this? Maybe a state law that does not apply to E-commerce? I would love to know more!

Most vendors state something like, 'Prices relflect a 3.5% discount for cash' or something simular. I'm sure that adding a 3.5% surcharge without telling you about it is illeagle. Or should be.

[FoilyGeezer]

PayPal does NOT add a surcharge. What they do is.....

Brad's pretty much on the money here. PayPal doesn't surcharge the customer, they charge the vendor for processing the credit card transactions (common with any commercial merchant service) and with respect to premium accounts (which is what you need to process credit card transactions) they legally have to surcharge all the transactions the same.

[Kettu]

Speaking of paypal, I'm in the process of completing a transaction for some foils and epees with this Svenke eBay seller. Apparently his paypal account name is that of... Physical Chess. Links in his account information also point towards Physical Chess as well. Interesting, no?

[mfp]

No it isn't, it's actually quite common and quite legal.

From the PayPal/Ebay site:

Under Visa, MasterCard, Discover and American Express regulations and the laws of several states, including California, merchants may not charge a fee to the buyer for accepting credit card payments (often called a "surcharge").

The typical method sellers use to get around the regulations of the card issuers and the laws of various states is to simply give a discount for cash instead of charging a surcharge for using a CC.

That said, surcharges for using a CC are still quite common. What happens when you complain to Visa/Mastercard/Amex about a vendor who uses surcharges is that they quickly switch to discounts for cash approach after the card issuer contacts them.

[rsy]

Speaking of paypal, I'm in the process of completing a transaction for some foils and epees with this Svenke eBay seller. Apparently his paypal account name is that of... Physical Chess. Links in his account information also point towards Physical Chess as well. Interesting, no?

For what it is worth, about a year and a half ago Physical Chess and Santelli announced that they were merging, but after making the announcement nothing ever seemed to come of it.

-r

[Purple Fencer]

Actually...it looks like something DID come of it...just nothing positive.

[edew]

There was a Santelli booth at the NAC B. I didn't go by to talk to them about what the deal is with the store or their online presence (or lack of).

[CvilleFencer]

There was a Santelli booth at the NAC B. I didn't go by to talk to them about what the deal is with the store or their online presence (or lack of).

This is the Richmond NAC you are talking about? It must have been in a special corner or the room only people from CA know about!

There was Triplette, BG, Fencing Post, PBT, Blade, Proprint and Marx. No Santelli...

Nice fencing by the way. I caught your last couple of boughts in the VMF.

[MikeHarm]

Hypothetically, if you felt like screwing your customers over by unloading all their orders that they paid for before delivery fast to someone else and ducking out of town, selling the lot for a cut rate in bulk to another fencing supplier would be the quickest way to do it wouldn't it?

[jeff]

Mike, that might be, but at least in this case that's one thing I'm sure didn't happen: Santelli's landlord locked them out, with the inventory still inside. If you peeked through the window you could see partially filled orders waiting to be completed from the last day they had access. So, this may be a number of things (all pretty sad...) but not a deliberate scheme to bilk buyers.

[hpfencing]

Santelli has always been a good company. I cannot see that they would try to cheat people even if they knew they might be going down.

[MikeHarm]

Did you peek through the window and see the stuff? Was there an eviction notice on the door? Has the landlord said anything?

Mike, that might be, but at least in this case that's one thing I'm sure didn't happen: Santelli's landlord locked them out, with the inventory still inside. If you peeked through the window you could see partially filled orders waiting to be completed from the last day they had access. So, this may be a number of things (all pretty sad...) but not a deliberate scheme to bilk buyers.

[jeff]

There are windows facing on the front office, not the back area where things are manufactured. It looked like it always did, with work-in-progress, invoiced, etcetera. There was a legal notice on the front door locking the building, and announcing a court date. I haven't heard anything official since.

[MikeHarm]

Did you catch when the court date was set for? I wonder if there is a court order silencing anyone involved in the legal dispute from talking about it.

[jeff]

The paper on the door said (if I recall correctly) Nov 19. Obviously that date has come and gone, but I don't know what the status is, or whether that was a preliminary hearing, something with judgements, etc.