crafty veterans

[ThaProfessor12]

Is it me , or do older fencers seem to just give up on all technique and only work on crafty counter attacks?

[mrbiggs]

Not all, but now that you mention it, I can see the tendancy.

On the other hand, from what I hear at least, foil used to be alot more about defense than it is now, so they may just be trying to fit their older, more defensive styles into today's offensive environment.

[Grasshopper]

I have fenced some pretty good vets - some with great attacks. It seems that the legs are the first to go, so those vets who keep up the footwork training have strong all-round games.

Also, when vets of today were young, the way foil was judged was more AIP-favorable, which is why they seem to CA alot.

[telkanuru]

There's a vet fencer (ex scottish nat'l champ, apparently), who frequents our club. His bladework is the devil! There is simply no way to take his blade (or at least, to hold it, I've managed to beat it once or twice). You think you have it, you go, and there's his point, on your arm. Oops. He has the remarkable ability (one I am trying to develop) of moving the point without moving the blade. Very crafty.

[mackillian]

The vets at my club have damn good technique.

[epeezack]

Its you
There the opposite of what you said.

[ThaProfessor12]

well not all obviously , theres a guy in ou division in his fifties that earned his A last year... but it seems that alot of them do counter attack in interesting ways... good technique or not

[davtsung]

A good veteran is quite a handful. A veteran who just fences for recreation tends to let certain facets of their game go in favor of other facets. But I've lost to many veterans at my salle, and actually feel quite good when I beat them.

[Inquartata]

There also seems to be an implicit assumption in your question: that counterattacks and technique are somehow mutually exclusive. They are not, of course.

[sabreur]

My game (in sabre) is built primarily around winning tempo and making attacks... i.e., based on footwork, speed and timing. I usually make the finals of the smaller open tournaments that I fence in, and acquit myself reasonably well in larger opens.

MR

[O_O]

He has the remarkable ability (one I am trying to develop) of moving the point without moving the blade. Very crafty.

how the hell does he do that? i fail to see how moving the point without moving the blade is physically possible, unless he is somehow able to disconnect the point and make it levitate around with the power of his mind.

[jspierre]

Like someone said, the legs usually go first, and unless the Vet fencer is focused on training, and maintaining footwork, including lunges, etc., sometimes their game can be reduced to hand tempo. But, their hand remains fast, and skillful. Also, their general tempo and timing can be pretty unpredictable as they don't establish any kind of movement pattern on the strip.

At least in epee, to me, many Vet fencers are counter-attackers. The better ones have a variety of attacks.

Some Vet's are outstanding like the Vet 50 in the US who won the US Div I Epee Nat Champ. a couple of year's ago, and the top of the Vet Saber circuit is also vy competitive.

[telkanuru]

how the hell does he do that? i fail to see how moving the point without moving the blade is physically possible, unless he is somehow able to disconnect the point and make it levitate around with the power of his mind.

Actually, it's all in the fingers. Once you get the hang of it, it's really rather easy. Of course, getting the hang of it is rather tricky. My coach is having me working on it.

[Victor]

... give up on all technique and only work on crafty counter attacks?

If the actions are "crafty" enough to succeed, then I'd have to say the fencer hasn't given up on his technique at all. Far from it.

[mackillian]

Absolutely the fingerwork. I now have a damn callus on the side of my right index finger.

[mrbiggs]

how the hell does he do that? i fail to see how moving the point without moving the blade is physically possible, unless he is somehow able to disconnect the point and make it levitate around with the power of his mind.

I might or might not be talking about the same guy that telekanuru is talking about, I doubt it, but I've had experience with a practically identical fencer.

It's not only the moving of the point without moving the blade, but the entire bladework in general. A slight movement in his fingers translates into a nearly perfect parry. Basically, all his movements are about one fourth that of yours or mine, but he manages to parry just as well, and then riposte easily, because his point is still on target area.

You really have to see it to know what I'm talking about.

[Point_Left]

Absolutely the fingerwork. I now have a damn callus on the side of my right index finger.

Ooooh! I'm envious! All I have is a writing callus, and some the calluses (sp?) on my feet from fencing. Kinda hard to show off..

I've been beat in sabre by a mush older fencer. He left me with a "Where did THAT come from??" impression. I think stamina is another thing that goes, because while he beat me easily in the five, the fifteen was much closer. (I can't remember who won.)

[Inquartata]

Absolutely the fingerwork. I now have a damn callus on the side of my right index finger.

"Stubby index finger
Tapping out your code;
Stubby index finger
Looking like a toad..."

( Rep point for the first person to know the origin of that song, who sang it and to whom it referred )

[sabreur]

"Stubby index finger
Tapping out your code;
Stubby index finger
Looking like a toad..."

( Rep point for the first person to know the origin of that song, who sang it and to whom it referred )

Google tells us it is from a spoof Western called Evil Roy Slade.

Someone else might be into 1970s cult films, and know more.

MR

[Inquartata]

Cheaters never prosper!