U.S. tries to push it's anti-science agenda onto the rest of the world.

[esskreemr]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science...eut/index.html

[jeff]

Not just on this topic. See http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environ...fm?pageID=1320
List of signatories (it's not anonymous) at http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environ...fm?pageID=1335


80 Nobel Laureates signed a letter to Bush, see
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...&notFound=true


Could be called (riffing on other thread) "Scientists Unimpressed by Bush".

[cowpaste]

This is the number one reason why I voted Kerry. He was a big fan of forward thinking.

[jBirch]

2 Questions:

1) Shouldn't this be in the Politics folder?

2) How does not supporting ebryonic cloning = anti-science?

[lochinvar]

That's all very interesting, but won't amount to very much. Irrespecive ov who sends letters urging whatever, George won't change his mind 'cause that would be sending mixed messages, dammit, an' we don't do that sort of thing in Texas...

[Moonitic]

It IS possible to do stem cell research without using embryos. Adult stem cells have been used, & have been proven to yield better results than embryonic stem cells. Not to mention the clear lack of studying stem cells harvested from umbilical cord blood. Right now, it's very difficult to have cord blood harvested. Most hospitals don't do it, & outside firms charge an arm & a leg (I looked into it while I was pregnant with my second child). Perhaps more people who want children should be able to get more of the embryos, & the government should make it easier for the other cell research to be done, instead of focusing so heavily on one source (a source that has yet to be proven effective).

You know, it's silly to think that if one doesn't support something, one "isn't a forward thinker." I'm so very tired of statements like that from both sides of the political fence. How about talking to people to see why they feel the way they do (in any situation), instead of automatically assuming something? We all could learn something by not having preconceived notions about people, even the people we dislike. God forbid we find out we have more in common with them than we originally thought!

Signed,

A Christian who really enjoys science (surprise!)...especially physics.

[noodle]

It IS possible to do stem cell research without using embryos. Adult stem cells have been used, & have been proven to yield better results than embryonic stem cells. Not to mention the clear lack of studying stem cells harvested from umbilical cord blood. Right now, it's very difficult to have cord blood harvested. Most hospitals don't do it, & outside firms charge an arm & a leg (I looked into it while I was pregnant with my second child). Perhaps more people who want children should be able to get more of the embryos, & the government should make it easier for the other cell research to be done, instead of focusing so heavily on one source (a source that has yet to be proven effective).

You know, it's silly to think that if one doesn't support something, one "isn't a forward thinker." I'm so very tired of statements like that from both sides of the political fence. How about talking to people to see why they feel the way they do (in any situation), instead of automatically assuming something? We all could learn something by not having preconceived notions about people, even the people we dislike. God forbid we find out we have more in common with them than we originally thought!

Signed,

A Christian who really enjoys science (surprise!)...especially physics.

and we are doing this research with adult stem cells.

but there IS a difference between the two, otherwise this would practically be a nonissue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_ce..._of_stem_cells

[jeff]

Moonitic - I respect your beliefs, but I think that the statement in your second sentence is not true (eg: "better results"). If that were the case, then why would scientists be so adamant that this is important.

As jBirch said, can we move this into Politics? Sigh. I'd like a folder for "Whimsey", where we posted things that didn't get everybody angry.

[davtsung]

Adult stem cells are simply not better than embryonal stem cells in a categorical way. We're trying to inject hepatic stem cells into patients with fulminant liver failure who can't receive a liver transplant, and the yield with adult stems are abysmal in comparison to the yield we can receive from embryonal.

[Westley]

Adult stem cells are simply not better than embryonal stem cells in a categorical way. We're trying to inject hepatic stem cells into patients with fulminant liver failure who can't receive a liver transplant, and the yield with adult stems are abysmal in comparison to the yield we can receive from embryonal.

Yeah! You tell them! I think....

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Just because someone doesn't support something because it goes against their moral beliefs does not make them "anti-science" or "not forward thinking".

[noodle]

Just because someone doesn't support something because it goes against their moral beliefs does not make them "anti-science" or "not forward thinking".

not supporting and trying to force others to not support it are two different things.

[Moonitic]

Moonitic - I respect your beliefs, but I think that the statement in your second sentence is not true (eg: "better results"). If that were the case, then why would scientists be so adamant that this is important.

As jBirch said, can we move this into Politics? Sigh. I'd like a folder for "Whimsey", where we posted things that didn't get everybody angry.

Actually, it's not about my "beliefs" this time. I have read, & if I had the time to hunt down the specific source I would (though I believe it was a relatively recent magazine article. I subscribe to quite a few), that adult stem cell research has gleaned better results than embryonic stem cell research. Why are scientists so adamant? Perhaps that's what they're being paid to be adamant about. Again, maybe cord blood should be something they study more of as well. They go where the money is. Maybe more funding should be given to that. This doesn't have so much to do with my "(religious) beliefs" as some people would like to think. Thousands of babies are born every day. How about using all that cord blood for something good, instead of throwing it out?

[S. Hunter]

We have a politics forum. This goes there. Its not hard to understand.

[S. Hunter]

Also - How is this topic related to stem cell research? It is about CLONING of human embryos for stem cell research, not BANNING the practice of stem cell research. It amazes me how some people don't even read articles they link to, as cloning is as much of an ethical issue as a scientific one, and one in which more than just 'right wing christian wackos' are opposed to.

[Inquartata]

U.S. tries to push it's anti-science agenda onto the rest of the world.

And of course no other country except the US ever tries to "push its agenda onto the rest of the world". Obviously, only the wicked Bush-led America would do such a thing!

And naturally, any view which disagrees with the one "the world community" espouses MUST be "anti" something good....

You may have a career in political spin-doctoring.

[Westley]

Actually, it's not about my "beliefs" this time. I have read, & if I had the time to hunt down the specific source I would (though I believe it was a relatively recent magazine article. I subscribe to quite a few), that adult stem cell research has gleaned better results than embryonic stem cell research. Why are scientists so adamant? Perhaps that's what they're being paid to be adamant about. Again, maybe cord blood should be something they study more of as well. They go where the money is. Maybe more funding should be given to that. This doesn't have so much to do with my "(religious) beliefs" as some people would like to think. Thousands of babies are born every day. How about using all that cord blood for something good, instead of throwing it out?

Did you even read the article posted about stem cell research? Anyway, part of the reason scientists haven't been able to do any good embryonic research is the limits on funding and their restrictions. But an embryonic stem cell can do anything an adult stem cell can do. And more. It has all the potential and none of the drawbacks. EXCEPT religious concerns. And let's put it this way. Their are thousands of eggs createdevery day. But they are allowed to waste away through non-action and sex. Certainly this is a better use than nothing. And of course, thousands of sperm are wasted- okay, not totally wasted, on the back cover of Sports Illustrated. Why not use it save lives?

[KShan5[PrFC]]

What is wrong with trying to stop other countries from murder? To some people it's the same thing as preventing the Holocaust.

[S. Hunter]

Did you even read the article posted about stem cell research? Anyway, part of the reason scientists haven't been able to do any good embryonic research is the limits on funding and their restrictions. But an embryonic stem cell can do anything an adult stem cell can do. And more. It has all the potential and none of the drawbacks. EXCEPT religious concerns. And let's put it this way. Their are thousands of eggs createdevery day. But they are allowed to waste away through non-action and sex. Certainly this is a better use than nothing. And of course, thousands of sperm are wasted- okay, not totally wasted, on the back cover of Sports Illustrated. Why not use it save lives?

You realize the article is about cloning embryos, not using ones already there, right? Hmmm?

[Moonitic]

You realize the article is about cloning embryos, not using ones already there, right? Hmmm?

Thank you, S. Hunter.

By the way, I have "mom concerns" not exactly "religious concerns." Why some people have to always make it about religion is beyond me. I'm against embryonic stem cell research not because I'm a Christian, but because there are thousands of people out there who can't have kids (I know several), who would probably love the chance (if they had it) to get those embryos & become parents. Yet it's made incredibly difficult to do such a thing. I am not, however, against adult stem cell research or cord blood research. I'd hardly say I was "anti-science" just because I don't agree with one of three options. It's like saying someone is "anti-snack food" because they don't like cupcakes, but they do like Ding-Dongs & Twinkies.

As far as cloning goes...if they must do embryonic stem cell research, they should just use what they have, not make excuses to "play God," so to speak.