A Safety Issue

[DamedEscrime]

Ok, men. Sorry about this, but yesterday I brought a man to his knees and he wasn't worshipping my feminine form. Unfortunately for him my epee went where no epee should go and he was not protected. We both felt badly, but he more than I.

So, how about a little survey? How many guys out there are foolish enough to come to the piste without a cup?

[Mergs]

AAHH! To cup or not to cup, that is the question. 'Twhether it is nobler to face the the outrageous flicks and counters of the opponent un-encombered or with that which is most vunerable encased in mere plastic?

I think this topic has played out before with the majority opting for "protection".

As for feeling sorry, hey, youse pays your money and youse takes your chances.

[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: Mergs ]

[MikeHarm]

Foil or sabre I don't worry about it, but in an epee tourney I would wear one.

Mike

[damianip]

This is one the most contested arguments around. Here and RSF you'll find much banter and vitriol surrounding the topic.

I wear a cup in all three weapons. Sabre is probably the least "threatening" to that area.

If you fence épée without one, you get what you deserve.

Paolo

[Moonitic]

You'd think men would WANT to protect their brains...

Sorry guys, you know what horn-dogs you are!

Anyway, I did an article at one point on "The Cup Conundrum." Some of the fencers told me some very gruesome stories about foil, epee AND sabre. Two out of three of those weapons have the groin as target area, and the third, well...that would be just too close for my taste if I were a man. Accidents happens. It's foolish to think "It won't happen to me."

A little story from our Sectional Championships: In the gold medal women's foil bout, the competition was fierce. If anyone knows Elinore Leighton, they know how powerful she is. Well, her FOIL broke, & ended up going through the lame, the jacket, the plastron AND the plastic breast plate of a woman named Peggy (I did confirm this with Peggy...she said the broken tip DID touch her skin).

Now, darling men, please imagine if this wasn't a woman's breast that we're talking about, but a man's "vital organ." No one should take chances on stuff like that.

And why is a woman so concerned about this? I have a husband & a son. And I've seen grown men cry.

Dame, if it's target, aim for it. Don't feel bad if you get the touch. Shame on them for not protecting themselves better.

[Boo Boo]

A few years ago, in this area, a man suffered having one of his testicles skewered to the inside of his thigh by a broken foil blade.

Boo
(watching the men in the news group cringe)

[attila]

I tried one once in High school gym class .I hated them then and I still won't wear one now.It is not the big deal many make it out to be. It is a choice. Some can just chalk it off to personal responsability.......

[lochinvar]

Well, back in MY day, we didn't HAVE cups!

We had to use PORCUPINES, and we tied 'em on with BARBED WIRE! And we LIKED it!
Helped our concentration and focus!

But...try and tell that to young people today, and they won't believe you...

[HilandDoug]

Well, Mike, you've obviously never caught an errant belly cut in the balls! It happens!

[Konstantinos]

Well...ive yet to fencing a USFA competition, just local stuff here in San Antonio, which isn't all the intense. But judging by all the bruises i have in the immediate area AROUND the jewels, after a long day of bouting, i can honestly say that i will be going with the cup when i go for my first real competition
Better safe than sorry

-Konstantinos

[gesk]

Originally posted by damianip:
<STRONG>This is one the most contested arguments around. Here and RSF you'll find much banter and vitriol surrounding the topic.

I wear a cup in all three weapons. Sabre is probably the least "threatening" to that area.

If you fence épée without one, you get what you deserve.

Paolo</STRONG>

Paolo I would normally agree with you on the sabre as the least threatening bit. this didn't happen to me but i saw it at a bout sometime back. Fencer A tried to make a head cut but fencer B pulled the head back and leaned back leaving his pelvic abit more forward. Fencer A continued with his cut and guess what he hit/chopped.

Quite funny for the rest of us watching.

[soos]

i dont have any cup to protect by family jewels ... but noone can touch me, thats why maybe

err i guess that 95% of male fencers havent cups

[DamedEscrime]

Konstantino, this was no big tourny. I don't think the size or type of tourny makes a differnce. You never know when someone will hit you severly in a tourny or even at practice.

And I will say I was much more agressive in my DE than I usually fence.

Moon if you know the George Washington story from Madison Heights [hehe], I was that way for the entire match. I was all over the guy. He even took a hard one in the neck when I jumped up and came down on him because we were too close to hit and I couldnt even get in prime. (I know you never saw me do that) He probably felt safe because I was pretty soft in the pool. And by the way Eleanor Leighton is an A epeeist from my club.

Attila , tsk, tsk.

Soos, you are only 25 this guy was about your age. He promised next time he met me he'd be wearing his cup. Do not depend on luck in not getting hit.

And Loch, my dear, you crack me up as usual. Remind me not to get too close to your "cup"


Finally, guys, do us all a favor, WEAR THEM CUPS.

[veeco]

Originally posted by DamedEscrime:
<STRONG>
Finally, guys, do us all a favor, WEAR THEM CUPS.</STRONG>

Why? It's a matter of choice. I'm ready to live with the consequences, and I have been fencing for more than 12 years, and I have never had this problem.
Sure I have been hit in the crotch a few times, but it was never that bad.
Either the people you fence are too brutal, or they don't know what they are doing, or they are just aiming for it.
In all cases there are certain parries or moves that will pretty much keep you safe.

I don't see why it would be doing a favor to women to wear a cup...

[Konstantinos]

aww...veeco...Damed is just looking out for our manhood Im touched...or rather...id rather not be touched hmm...

[Inquartata]

Because a lot of them would feel bad if they were to be responsible---or even just the unwitting agent---of causing a serious injury. Just as you'd probably feel guilty if your blade broke and killed someone, even if it were later discovered he wasn't wearing a plastron.

[DamedEscrime]

Okay, Veeco, for you, I'll admit...I appreciate then manhood within and would rather have it intact.

(You know, no matter how I say that, it won't sound right.)

[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: DamedEscrime ]

[schwarta]

To use a cup or not? I have been fencing for only a year but have seen some strange things.
My experience has been that it is particularly hard to hit that part of the male body on purpose (when fencing Foil). With a good stiff Epee blade you can get a touch easily. With Sabre, my experience is that a beat can cause the opponents blade to reach the outside of the thigh.

With this in mind I never wore a cup at the beginning. I then took a college gym class that taught fencing hoping to get that much more practice. The class was a mistake by itself but it convinced me to wear a cup.

The class was taught by someone who had never fenced before; she had only read books. Her advice to people was always, "Be aggressive." So we had 20 people who really did not know how to use foils jabbing, swinging, and punching the weapon at the opponent. I started wearing a cup.

I fence exclusively Sabre and have this to say: In sabre, decently trained fencers should not hit groin. But you never know if your opponent is decently trained until after you have your bout. Do not take the risk in ANY WEAPON. You just do not know and it is better to be safe than in PAIN.

[Cutter]

All this talk about sabre being the least likely to receive a "whack" in that delicate area brings back a fond {choking} memory of recent past where there was a young girl (about 20) who fenced sabre (she no longer fences as she got kicked off her team for unsportsmanlike conduct) and when she was loosing to a gentleman, she purposely aimed for that region with all her strength (which was pretty substantial given her size). I watched 2 such bouts and she dropped her opponent to their knees. The sad thing is that they were then so paranoid of getting whacked again, she ended up winning both those bouts. I heard from others in her club (she wasn't part of ours) that she would actually brag about this practice. So, my vote, even in sabre, you never know the mentality of the person you are up against, cup up...

p.s. Against the women, she went for the breasts...I now always wear protectors just because of her.

[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: Cutter ]

[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: Cutter ]

[Moonitic]

For the cupless: Which would be worse...temporary discomfort or serious, & possibly long lasting pain?

There is something I have learned in my life, that all people need to be aware of: It can happen to you. Never think you're above tragedy.

And Cutter, that's just plain awful of that girl.

A funny note...the last time this subject was covered (ha ha), someone said that not wearing a cup was "natural selection at work." I guess if you're too stupid to take the necessary precautions, then you deserve to lose whatever you don't protect.